6.5 creed magnum

[Trr15]

With this new development in technology, the 6.5 creedmoor may be able to kill an elk now.

 

[UnckleBob]

Clear. But velocity and the mass of the ejecta (bullet + powder) still defines recoil. I doubt the difference in powder weight is sufficient to offset the increase in velocity. I would have said its a given that it’ll still recoil more than a standard creedmoor. Maybe less than a PRC, but still more than a creedmoor. In other words, from a performance standpoint id think this is a “low recoiling PRC”, not a “fast creedmoor”.

Look at this video and you can see three different 6.5CM rifles shot with regular ammo the new ammo.

Imo - the only time the 6.5CM looks like it kicks much is when he shot it from the insanely light Weatherby Capra rifle.

 

[RockAndSage]

Any concerns with the higher pressure and barrel/throat erosion and life expectancy?

The greater the pressure, the greater the temperature - there's literally no way to change that reality. The only thing that can be done is to either mitigate the effects, with things like newer alloys, or reduce the pressure with workarounds, possibly similar to what Weatherby and Proof's new PXT barrels do with their rifling, which is get the bullet down the bore faster with less resistance to increase volume, to minimize the pressure spike it causes in acting like a pressure plug.

 

[nm.otter]

Details aside (and assuming we don't see major gotchas with higher pressure cases), more overbore cartridges (those with higher case capacity to bore area ratios) are going to lose market share. If I can shoot a 6mm ARC at GT velocities...

 

[Macintosh]

Look at this video and you can see three different 6.5CM rifles shot with regular ammo the new ammo.

Imo - the only time the 6.5CM looks like it kicks much is when he shot it from the insanely light Weatherby Capra rifle.

Physics is physics. None of these are hard recoiling, its more the cumulative effect for me.
Guessing aside, I plugged numbers into a recoil calculator. A 140gr 6.5 using 45gr of powder to reach 2700fps in a 9lb gun generates a bit over 12.8ft/lb of recoil. At 3000fps (the claimed +300 fps) you have to drop to below 37gr of powder to have the same recoil. We cant know the actual recoil comparison for sure without having load data or the guns in hand. But suffice to say if it uses the SAME weight of powder it will recoil more. In this case it will recoil 14% more with the same powder charge weight. The question is how low can you get the charge weight. If PRC velocity is realistic with creedmoor recoil that will require a charge weight less than 37gr. If that is possible, and if the increase in pressure has no associated degradation in precision, then it could be something.

Of course not needing prc velocity I still think this would be more interesting in a grendel than a creedmoor. And perhaps some of the “straight wall” cartridges.

 

[omicron1792]

Physics is physics. None of these are hard recoiling, its more the cumulative effect for me.
Guessing aside, I plugged numbers into a recoil calculator. A 140gr 6.5 using 45gr of powder to reach 2700fps in a 9lb gun generates a bit over 12.8ft/lb of recoil. At 3000fps (the claimed +300 fps) you have to drop to below 37gr of powder to have the same recoil. We cant know the actual recoil comparison for sure without having load data or the guns in hand. But suffice to say if it uses the SAME weight of powder it will recoil more. In this case it will recoil 14% more with the same powder charge weight. The question is how low can you get the charge weight. If PRC velocity is realistic with creedmoor recoil that will require a charge weight less than 37gr. If that is possible, and if the increase in pressure has no associated degradation in precision, then it could be something.

Of course not needing prc velocity I still think this would be more interesting in a grendel than a creedmoor. And perhaps some of the “straight wall” cartridges.

This seems to have you worked up in some way?

Looks like a solid win for Federal to me.

 

[Macintosh]

No man, not at all worked up. Just commenting on my read of what the real upside and downside will be since all we have is the marketing spin. I dont think it matches well with my personal needs so its not something Im looking to buy, but would not be commenting if I didnt think it was interesting. Whether its a big win for federal is part of my curiosity. 6.5cm is among the most popular cartridges in the US, so its likely to be a bigger win there than it is in some of the cartridges that might suit my actual needs better. Thats sort of where I was going.

 

[Xycod]

As much as this does for the 6.5, imo the ultimate game changing caliber I hear is coming will be the 308. Adding 300 fps to a 308 is getting box velocity of a 300 win, that’s huge. Add to that the already huge availability, the price, the fact it’s available in ar10s,scar’s, and countless others, to have that to go along with the 6.5 would make a lot of calibers almost obsolete, other than just a want I guess.

But a 18/20 inch 308 at 2900/3k for 180s in a short action, that handles most anything anywhere short or long.

 

[BLJ]

imo the ultimate game changing caliber I hear is coming will be the 308.

$70 a box for 308 is bad math for me.

IMO.

 

[Xycod]

Yeah if it gets to that price point for 308 it’ll be for hunting only for most I’m guessing, just shoot the regular stuff for the most part but that option even existing is still cheaper than buying a separate rifle. Also if they follow suit of the creed then again, it’s game changing innovation imo.


Early prices on the 6.5 creed that’s up for preorders.

 

[mt100gr.]

Looks like Federal just found a way to duplicate Reloder 26. Shorty Creedmoors have been punching way above their weight class for a while.

 

[BLJ]

Yeah if it gets to that price point for 308 it’ll be for hunting only for most I’m guessing, just shoot the regular stuff for the most part but that option even existing is still cheaper than buying a separate rifle. Also if they follow suit of the creed then again, it’s game changing innovation imo.


Early prices on the 6.5 creed that’s up for preorders.

MSPR must have got me with the $70 a box.

Thought I saw that somewhere.

 

[nm.otter]

was good

 

[Flack]

If its the same volume of powder, but burning faster to hit the target pressure, is it actually more recoil?
I can definitely see a difference in recoil impulse trending snappier.

Be interesting to hear from folks that have loaded faster powders vs slower powders at similar charges. Maybe the silhouette crowd?

Yes. Opposite and equal forces being what they are, there’s no free lunch. If your bullet has more energy it’s pushing against your shoulder that much harder.

 

[ckt3]

Yes. Opposite and equal forces being what they are, there’s no free lunch. If your bullet has more energy it’s pushing against your shoulder that much harder.

i don’t think this is necessarily true. If you can achieve the increased velocity with a sufficiently decreased charge, the recoil can be reduced while velocity is increased.

That’s kinda the whole story here. Higher pressures mean more work on the bullet means higher velocity. And it’s doing this in a Creed case with less powder vs a PRC. So the ratios can theoretically net to lower recoil. It is certainly not impossible.

You can run the momentum calculations on a toy example to verify.

 

[packgoatguy]

It will be interesting to see how this works out... I can already get good accuracy and 2625-2650fps with a 140eldm in my 16 inch tikka 6.5cm with rl16 or n555... and by my math, a 153tmk at 2900 in a 24 inch barrel will equal about 2660fps with 30fps loss per inch of barrel length... so a bit of an edge, and it might be nice to have factory loadings that do what only handloads do now...

But, as has been pointed out, I would expect more recoil and worse barrel life...

However, there are new braked suppressors on the market like the TENET limited that might be the answer to the recoil issue... and there is new-ish barrel tech from Proof and Seekins with the exponential twist (or gain twist) barrels that might solve the barrel life issues...

Exciting times to see where all this new tech takes us.

 

[BigDaddycornbread]

There are some concerns I have had here , in no way is anything 100% a good thing, there is and always will be toss ups

Pros. Faster , and now one gun can now have two jobs cheap plinking and down and dirty.

Cons all actions are built and designed around 65,000 PSI. IMHO I do feel we will see repercussions running a heavy diet of 80k psi through a lot of today’s actions it’s not talked about but Inherent receiver flex is present in all actions under pressure , stillar, defiance, impact, pure precision these actions will hold up way better , I do however see mossberg patriots and cheaper made rifles such as fall through the cracks of being able to rely on consistent return under those pressures

I am not a NEED A MAGNUM guy
I have harvested 3 elk with 6.5 Creed between 300 and 600 yards it did more than anyone would believe it could for me on all and killed them just as fast as any shot with a 7mm cal . That said I would NOT advise pushing it past 600 yards because that bullet was played out at the off side ribs where I found it, that stated the bullet hit scapula went through the chest cavity made mush of the lungs and the elk was out of the game within less than 10 seconds. That’s a cool success story but backing it with 300 FPS more wouldn’t have changed my out come.

I do fear it will push people to expand their max game shooting range farther than a standard short action should be trusted

 

[ozyclint]

6.5 Creedmore

 

[Flack]

i don’t think this is necessarily true. If you can achieve the increased velocity with a sufficiently decreased charge, the recoil can be reduced while velocity is increased.

That’s kinda the whole story here. Higher pressures mean more work on the bullet means higher velocity. And it’s doing this in a Creed case with less powder vs a PRC. So the ratios can theoretically net to lower recoil. It is certainly not impossible.

You can run the momentum calculations on a toy example to verify.

I don’t think you’re wrong, but the message I replied to said “If it’s the same volume of powder…” and in that case there’s no free lunch.