File sharpened “toothy” edge vs razor sharp polished edge?

[Zking]

From a physiology standpoint the more jagged the cut the more clotting is activated as the chemicals that trigger the clotting cascade are released be damaged cells. So if you damage twice as many cells for the same width cut you trigger more clotting without increased hemorrhage.

If the blade angle is the same I don’t see how a more or less polished edge would dull faster. Does anyone have insight on that?

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

From a physiology standpoint the more jagged the cut the more clotting is activated as the chemicals that trigger the clotting cascade are released be damaged cells. So if you damage twice as many cells for the same width cut you trigger more clotting without increased hemorrhage.

If the blade angle is the same I don’t see how a more or less polished edge would dull faster. Does anyone have insight on that?

In my experience, you can polish edges without actually achieving a refined apex. Leaving the burr on can make an edge feel super sharp but it will dull quickly. Likewise, it’s possible to round over the apex using softer polishing wheels or poor stropping technique. You can see your nose hairs in the reflection, but if the apex isn’t refined properly it doesn’t matter.

 

[Beendare]

From a physiology standpoint the more jagged the cut the more clotting is activated as the chemicals that trigger the clotting cascade are released be damaged cells. So if you damage twice as many cells for the same width cut you trigger more clotting without increased hemorrhage.

If the blade angle is the same I don’t see how a more or less polished edge would dull faster. Does anyone have insight on that?

I don't think thats true. If you think you have a grabby sharp edge check the opposite side of the bevel to see if it was just the burr you are feeling.

There is a lot of info on testing the best edge and steel on Bladeforums.com. The competitions where they cut through Manila rope are probably the best determining factor on what works best in our case with BH's. I have seen a couple of guys comment that they hone the edge down then hit it with a rougher 400 grit diamond. I've seen others that are a big fan of a micro bevel at a wider angle to make the edge tougher.

We need them sharp but also a little bit durable as the head might encounter bone.
The design matters too. The longer tapered designs put less dulling pressure on the bevelled edge. The short heads chop their way in with more hair, hide and bone contact which can dull an edge fast. It's all a trade off and thankfully just about everything works most of the time.

 

[Old3Toe]

The Bowyer's Edge with Dean Torges

Leaving this link here as a broadhead sharpening reference, especially for those of us who file sharpen broadheads. It's all technique and understanding, not rocket surgery.

 

[KyleR1985]

Dull broadheads will go through an animal at really close to the same rate as sharp broadheads, all else being equal.

Dull broadheads will not cut as much pressurized blood containing vessels as sharp ones, all else being equal.

For the vessels that do get cut, those cut by dull blades will clot/close faster than those cut by sharp blades.

None of this is particularly controversial.

All of this is on a continuum.

If you’re trying to compare pretty sharp broadheads to really sharp broadheads, You likely have to kill many animals to start to quantify the differences. I would be wary of human beings’ propensity to post hoc events to fit their mental model.


Across 100 or so medium/big game animals killed with a bow, and dozens more I’ve been witness to, I’ve landed on: surgically sharp fixed heads on 500-550gr arrows shot through a broadside ish calm animal without breaking their leg bone (punching a scapula doesn’t see to change things). This combo seems to lead to animals that dont run far, animals that dont know they dying, animals that lose enough blood pressure to get it to their brains quickly, animals that die within sight or sound of where I shot them.

Drop arrow weight, shoot a mechanical, shoot a dull broadhead, take a steep shot angle, break a leg, shoot a jacked up animal, and results can vary wildly. To be clear I have done, and continue to do some or all of these things.

But I have not seen a single compelling reason across all of it to shoot a dull broadhead.

 

[GotDraw?]

"file-sharp, toothy..."

Ask yourself it that's what you want your surgeon to use one you or your spouse or significant other. And tell the surgeon he/she only gets to use one blade on you for the full surgery and can only start after cutting through some elk hair and hide. Let's see how that works. And make sure the blade is made of cheap ass steel that rolls over when it hits bone.

JL

 

[LostArra]

Toothy edge does not mean it's dull.
A rolled edge is dull.
Sharpening to 800 grit is still sharp but not as polished as one at 2000 grit.

A surgeon's goal is minimal bleeding and minimal tissue damage especially small vessels. A sharp but toothy edge doesn't work for the surgeon.

A bowhunter's goal is just the opposite which is why I like a sharp but unpolished edge on my broadheads.

 

[GotDraw?]

Here's a question:

If a cheap (most likely) Chinese-made steel file can sharpen the steel of a broadhead, what does that say about the broadhead's steel quality and head treatment?

It tells me that the broadhead's steel and heat treatment is far worse than even the crappy steel of the Chinese file. If a broadhead's steel and heat treatment are anywhere near that of the file, then the file would skate off the broadhead's edge without really cutting or biting into the broadhead.

The larger the animal, and the more expensive the hunt, the more I want the odds stacked in my favor to increase my odds of a kill. I want this because thick elk/moose hides and bigger bones increase the energy needed for penetration and cutting far more than one would think.

What I look for is a cut on contact broadhead made of excellent quality steel, with a real heat treatment where the point and the cutting edges remain fully intact and sharp while passing through fur, mud, hide and bone. For elk/moose, etc I'll pay the extra money for a broadhead made by a company that cares about quality and delivers broadheads made of top quality steel with real heat treatment and edges that are mirror sharp.

So many broadheads are made of cheap-ass, crappy steel with crappy (if any) real heat treatment. It seems all the manufacturers really care about is having a cool, bad-ass sounding broadhead name and slick packaging. Cheap, poor broadheads are probably not as much of an issue on whitetail with thin hides and skinny ribs. On the farm I manage, I can walk out of my car and hunt. My treestand shots are under 40yds and typically much closer. I am less worried about my broadhead. But I won't risk it for longer, open-country shots on larger animals or any sort of a draw hunt, backcountry hunt or a trophy animal where the cost, effort, draw odds/points all steer me in the direction of minimizing risk and maximizing my odds.

Poor steel that is poorly heat treated steel = a tip or edge bending, rolling or breaking off from bone contact. Once that happens, it severely limits further penetration and cutting and recovery odds.

As to edge quality- the sharper the edge, the easier the broadhead will penetrate. Period. If an edge will shave hair, its sharp enough. If not, then that extra inch or two or more of lost penetration vs mirror edge might make the difference between recovery and tag-soup.

YMMV

JL

 

[Beendare]

Sure great steel holds an edge better.

I've run the gamut of great expensive steel BH's to the cheaper of cheap. IME, the design matters as much as the steel. By that I mean, the short chisel heads of cheap steel [like the Slick trick mag] have blade angles that dull easily due to compression on hair and hide. Those need to be very good steel to maintain their sharpness.

A tapered head- call it 2.5 to 1 blade angle-puts a lot less pressure on the edge and slips in easier without that hair/hide compression. Less dulling pressure.

 

[Wilderlife]

I know it wouldn't be a big complete study like the Ashby reports, but I'm tempted to maybe shoot some critters with an edge that's just sharpened with a file (burr removed) and then some critters with the same edge that's been honed on a diamond steel and a strop, and see if in a somewhat limited study there can be any differences observed. It might take a bit to put it together but it's something I might try over the next six months to see what happens.

 

[RockAndSage]

a big complete study like the Ashby reports

Speaking of this, what's the general consensus on designs like the Grizzlystik broadheads, with a single bevel?