6.5 Banned on Elk by Outfitters?

[zion zig zag]

I was recently part of the goat cull at Grand Teton NP and they required us to hit an 8" target 3 out of 5 at 200 yards. Lots of guys talked about what a gimme that was until time to shoot and it was barely light, 25 degrees, snowing/raining and blowing 30mph gusts. That's what a guides test for hunting should be.

 

[brsnow]

There really shouldn’t be a test for hunting.

 

[204guy]

There really shouldn’t be a test for hunting.

I agree with that, but for a private business like an outfitter it makes a lot more sense then a min. cal restriction.

For the umpteenth time harder recoiling cartridges are counter productive to putting bullets where they need to go.

 

[Bubblehide]

I agree with that, but for a private business like an outfitter it makes a lot more sense then a min. cal restriction.

For the umpteenth time harder recoiling cartridges are counter productive to putting bullets where they need to go.

Hard recoiling is often relative, but I get your point. We all need to be hunting with rifles/calibers we are competent at shooting in a variety of positions/situations. I have several calibers to choose from when hunting, from 222, 6.5, 7mm, 300wsm, 300wm, 338. My go to hunting rifle is my 300wsm, unbraked, not because it is a harder recoiler, but because it shoots so damn well for me; not that the others don't; but for most hunting situations I find myself in, it fits the situation way more often than not.

Whether one takes the stance of hunter accuracy, distance of shot... it all boils down to competency with the weapon of choice and ammo utilized.

 

[zion zig zag]

There really shouldn’t be a test for hunting.

Agreed. Changed my statement to say "That's what a guides test for hunting should be." Meaning if he wishes to know how his client will shoot, have him shoot in real world conditions. Probably more effective than cartridge restrictions.

 

[Roksliding]

The outfitter is probably just sick of hearing “6.5”

 

[roosiebull]

Not if they are so scared of their rifle that they cannot hit a stationary 8.5"x11' piece of paper at 100 yards. I see it every freaking year on various hunts.

Far too many people shoot calibers that they are scared to death of but their egos get in the way.

This part is NOT directed towards anyone specifically:
Never understood the religious belief that bigger is always better. But hey, this is America. If you believe that a 338 WM in the animal's butt is ethical and makes for a quicker and cleaner kill, then knock yourself out. But give me the same respect and do not get bitchy when I place a smaller caliber in the animal's lungs.

I ran into a guy in the woods a few years ago packing a beautiful rifle, and he had a sling with the shell holders connected, I noticed the bullets were freakishly large and asked him what it was... it was a 338-378 wby, and I said that looks like a rough gun to shoot, he told me it was, and he doesn’t shoot it, he sighted it in and only packs it elk hunting and only plans to shoot it at a bull. It was a sweet rig, I think it was a Mark 5 variation, and had a nice leupold on it, not positive on the exacts, but he spent some dough on the setup and is admittedly unwilling to shoot it unless it’s at a live elk...

I don’t understand having a rifle with that much potential capability, and being un-practiced with it... seems like a waste. Any rifle with open turrets on it should be one you shoot a lot or why have them?

 

[Rich M]

I do hope that you are being sarcastic. Otherwise that is a very elitist way of thinking.

Yes, just stirring.

 

[trophyhill]

My friend calls the Creedmore, the Needmore. I’m quite sure there is good reason behind it. Bullet choice quite possibly be the main culprit

 

[netman]

Thought this was suitable for the topic.

 

[kcm2]

There are people who can connect on elk at 1000 yards with a 6.5 and humanely kill them. I know a few, folks who practice a fair bit and folks who were snipers in a past life. There are also a lot of people who see the TV shows, can't shoot well enough to dispatch animals at 300 yards but want to shoot like the guys on the TV shows. My general rule: if you go on an internet forum to ask about long range shooting, you aren't good enough to do it. There are plenty of elk that can be killed under 200 yards, and yes, I say that as a fellow who has killed a lot of elk in the 300-400 yd range. And there are people who manage to kill elk with bows every year at rock throwing distances. I suspect the outfitter is tired of the wannabe sniper types that want to kill an elk at 1200 yds with their 6.5 Creedmoor and have no more business trying that than they do driving at the Indy 500.

 

[brsnow]

It could also be the outfitter is not good enough at their job to get their clients close enough.

 

[LongWayAround]

A few years ago, I ran into a guy at the range who was shooting a .243, he told me it was his preferred carry for cow elk. The guy seemed totally competent and I didn't think twice about it.

Since then, I've seen a number of guys old and young, who are scared of their big magnums.

I would rather hunt next to the .243 guy.

 

[roosiebull]

I do hope that you are being sarcastic. Otherwise that is a very elitist way of thinking.

or the type of guy who needs the biggest everything to make up for insecurities.... like the guys who drive one tons and don't tow anything and talk trash about small pickups... lots of those types running around these days

at least they have soft hands

 

[Azone]

So what I’m gathering so far is business owners are making a decision in what they believe is their best interest and people are upset? Cool, got it. Some people have used what others consider inadequate to do what a lot of the problem children can’t do? Cool, got that to. Shot placement, bullet construction and impact velocity/energy play a part? Yup, definitely understand that. A designer rifle in 6.5 is just another attempt to compensate for the unknown? If you run a “6.fye” as part of your kit, you obviously must have your shit together right? Copy that. Some of these topics can’t die and just keep festering.

Use what your completely confident with, within in its efficient killing range. Obviously impact velocity/energy and bullet construction will give you this answer. If you can’t shoot to save your nuts, a CM and Gunwerks are not gonna make up for it. If you have the training and trigger time and are confident by all means, shoot.
My personal opinion is shoot the largest caliber you can comfortably and accurately then go burn a barrel or two out getting to know it. I know the CM has healed the sick, parted the seas and even taken a few strokes off people’s golf games do to the confidence boost it provides but it’s not the righteous finger of god as some think it is. It’s a fine cartridge for hunting and kills plenty, I know a few people that have a serious crush on them but there’s better options for elk in my opinion.
Wake me up when the 264 win mag is cool again.

 

[Longranginidaho]

Put any of the above named calibers in the boiler room and the biggest bull will go down. Maybe if these people hiked a trail before opening day the would have better luck as well. EZ to blame the caliber on a poorly placed shot.

 

[wyosam]

There are people who can connect on elk at 1000 yards with a 6.5 and humanely kill them. I know a few, folks who practice a fair bit and folks who were snipers in a past life. There are also a lot of people who see the TV shows, can't shoot well enough to dispatch animals at 300 yards but want to shoot like the guys on the TV shows. My general rule: if you go on an internet forum to ask about long range shooting, you aren't good enough to do it. There are plenty of elk that can be killed under 200 yards, and yes, I say that as a fellow who has killed a lot of elk in the 300-400 yd range. And there are people who manage to kill elk with bows every year at rock throwing distances. I suspect the outfitter is tired of the wannabe sniper types that want to kill an elk at 1200 yds with their 6.5 Creedmoor and have no more business trying that than they do driving at the Indy 500.

The problem with that whole statement is that it singles out the 6.5s in a larger problem. There are “long range” hunters carrying everything from the 6.5 creed to the 338 Lapua who have no business shooting at game beyond 300 yards. Owning something other than a 6.5 does not make someone a marksmen.


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[Roughwater]

I’m pretty sure the guides rules are you can use a 6.5 as long as you also don’t have all brand new head to toe Sitka

I know folks like to knock Sitka. It is overpriced but most of it is pretty well made. The most durable of the sitka is a bit noisy for bow hunting. I always thought it odd that my pants have 2 Zippers though so you can either zip up from the bottom or zip down from the top to open the zipper. But they do have other more practical extras that none of my other clothing has which I like. I like the zippered pockets so I don't loose my junk, the knee pads and I like that they aren't real baggy. You can find a model that fits the weather you hunt in and color scheme that will best fit your type of hunting. But my favorite hunting pants of all time was a pair of camo felt pants I probably bought 30 years ago for bow hunting and still have. They are quiet and always felt warm and comfortable. I somehow cut a small hole in them with a broadhead many years ago near where the cuff would be (if it had a cuff) without cutting my leg. I don't know how I did that? But still, I like my sitka clothing. But like anything, the advertising always promotes the strength of a product and not it's weaknesses. But everyone knows you can't kill an Elk wearing anything else.

 

[bluetick78]

So what I’m gathering so far is business owners are making a decision in what they believe is their best interest and people are upset? Cool, got it. Some people have used what others consider inadequate to do what a lot of the problem children can’t do? Cool, got that to. Shot placement, bullet construction and impact velocity/energy play a part? Yup, definitely understand that. A designer rifle in 6.5 is just another attempt to compensate for the unknown? If you run a “6.fye” as part of your kit, you obviously must have your shit together right? Copy that. Some of these topics can’t die and just keep festering.

Use what your completely confident with, within in its efficient killing range. Obviously impact velocity/energy and bullet construction will give you this answer. If you can’t shoot to save your nuts, a CM and Gunwerks are not gonna make up for it. If you have the training and trigger time and are confident by all means, shoot.
My personal opinion is shoot the largest caliber you can comfortably and accurately then go burn a barrel or two out getting to know it. I know the CM has healed the sick, parted the seas and even taken a few strokes off people’s golf games do to the confidence boost it provides but it’s not the righteous finger of god as some think it is. It’s a fine cartridge for hunting and kills plenty, I know a few people that have a serious crush on them but there’s better options for elk in my opinion.
Wake me up when the 264 win mag is cool again.

.....I'm not very cool, but the .264 Win Mag has always been cool.

 

[Short Track]

My Moose didn't like my 6.5CM. 1st shot killed her, but she started walking off. So I shot her in the butt for good measure. She walked a total of 10 feet.

My go to white tail gun is a .243