NM landowner tags under fire

[roadrunner]

Most guys are just complaining because they didn’t draw in NM as they always do, but NM doesn’t have a point system everyone has the same chance of drawing and anyone can buy a tag if unsuccessful in the draw. I’ve been putting in for AZ elk for many years and never have drawn an elk tag. But in NM I’ve drawn quite a few. For what I’ve spent on AZ points for 20 years I could have bought an AZ landowner tag if they had them.

You have 3 chances of drawing a tag per application because there is only one application shuffle (random number assigned and then sorted), then all 3 choices are looked at, so yes, it sounds good until your application is at the very bottom. I suppose you could have 4 if you elect the 4th choice option.

Chances are not odds and odds are not probabilities though of drawing a tag.

The only thing NM offers is a level playing field each year. But that's not what I was referring to when I said sort of.

 

[OKHunter84]

That's not what Capitalism is...

cap·i·tal·ism ˈka-pə-tə-ˌliz-əm
ˈkap-tə-

: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

So tell me how a private property owner getting whatever the free market is willing to pay for a tag the state has allocated to him isn't capitalism? It's damn sure not communism.

 

[canyonhunter47]

It’s damned sure not because non-residents get them!!

NM has a good LO tag allocation system, but allocating 6% of total tags for NR draw is silly. Especially when they allocate 4 of the 6% to outfitters. That leaves 2% of total tags for non-resident diy hunters.

At 94% resident allocation, if a resident isn’t drawing a cow tag it’s because they’re only applying in the high demand units.

Your numbers are off. 84% to residents, 10% to outfitted hunters, 6% to nonresident DIY. Yet somehow over half the trucks in the field have Texas plates

 

[roadrunner]

So tell me how a private property owner getting whatever the free market is willing to pay for a tag the state has allocated to him isn't capitalism? It's damn sure not communism.

You said:

That's how capitalism works. Whoever has the most resources gets the most.

So, when government has the most resources, they get the most. The very definition of State Socialism...

 

[SuperDUECE22]

I hope one day beef actually costs the consumer what it costs to raise. Land included.

Amen to that.
I've saw it mentioned a few times on this thread but so many misinformed people see these large ranches and automatically think they are rich. Which in well over 90% of the time is so far from the truth. Being Land Rich & cash poor is so common in the ranching industry.

 

[KHNC]

It seems like a lot of folks don’t understand the eplus system.

The podcast referenced by the OP is a good starting point. Emotional ad hominems like this might get you “likes” on Rokslide but don’t add anything.

Landowner tags in theory are fine. How New Mexico has done it is extreme and has severe implications for the ability of residents to get tags.

You cant get a lot of these people to see this. They are brainwashed and want their LO tags no matter what.

 

[KHNC]

NM has a depredation program separate from eplus. It's called Jennings Law. It's pretty much like all the stuff on the right side of @KHNC 's post right above, but no tag needed. Rancher can just have at it, but that forfeits participation in eplus.

I just read on another forum (is it against the rules to post that link?) a discussion about Wyoming's proposal to issue unlimited OTC cow elk tags for certain units that are over-populated and which are mostly private property. Most comments indicate that it won't work b/c 1) all the elk just get pushed onto private land, and 2) $1000 access fees aren't enough to open up ranches to public hunters. Bunch of comments about allowing transferable LO authorizations to open up private land.

Correct, hence my saying LO tags and Depredation tags are NOT the same thing. Thank you for pointing that out. Some people just love to argue.

 

[Reburn]

Your numbers are off. 84% to residents, 10% to outfitted hunters, 6% to nonresident DIY. Yet somehow over half the trucks in the field have Texas plates

Please show me a heat map of new mexico land ownership by state of residence.

 

[Fredcohunter]

Please show me a heat map of new mexico land ownership by state of residence.

Help me understand why that would matter with the EPLUS program? Is the land owner required to be a NM resident to have their land in the program?

 

[Coopsdaddy]

I’m a firm believer there should be zero land owner tags. None.

Absolutely
I own 120 in Oklahoma and dang sure don’t get tags and don’t deserve them just because I own land.

 

[Fredcohunter]

I’m a firm believer there should be zero land owner tags. None.

Would you be okay with land owners making land as uninhabitable as possibly for wildlife and killing animals that damage property/livestock/crops? I seriously want to understand because I thought programs like the EPLUS program were designed to incentivize land owners to create habitat and open the land up for hunters. Should there be no incentive for landowners?

 

[BBob]

Your numbers are off. 84% to residents, 10% to outfitted hunters, 6% to nonresident DIY. Yet somehow over half the trucks in the field have Texas plates

They were busted in court over this once before.............

 

[cuerro viejo]

Your numbers are off. 84% to residents, 10% to outfitted hunters, 6% to nonresident DIY. Yet somehow over half the trucks in the field have Texas plates

Most are probably NM residents working in WTX and Eastern NM oil/gas patch

 

[cuerro viejo]

Absolutely
I own 120 in Oklahoma and dang sure don’t get tags and don’t deserve them just because I own land.

That’s Because they are all OTC now but Rifle Pronghorn… lol. but you can still get out of season depredation assistance .

 

[cuerro viejo]

Correct, hence my saying LO tags and Depredation tags are NOT the same thing. Thank you for pointing that out. Some people just love to argue.

negative read what he actually wrote.

Jennings is basically now for after season depredation used mainly in Secondary zone elk units like eastern NM.

Eplus is only for Prime elk units, It was brought about to replace Jennings and be a more beneficial alternative to Jennings’s In core/prime elk units.

Jennings is when you have a herd of elk laying over a circle of corn in July etc. and you waste the whole herd.

Now tell us how you think Jennings is better than the evolution of Eplus. By all means let’s go back to Jennings over Eplus…. lol,, reason why if you use Jennings you cant be in Eplus.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

That’s Because they are all OTC now but Rifle Pronghorn… lol. but you can still get out of season depredation assistance .

I’m not a farmer and have no crop damage.
I think that’s a different story.
In Oklahoma if you are a farmer with crop damage you can get those but have to leave game lay.
That’s not really what we are talking about.

 

[KHNC]

I’m not a farmer and have no crop damage.
I think that’s a different story.
In Oklahoma if you are a farmer with crop damage you can get those but have to leave game lay.
That’s not really what we are talking about.

You wont convince the guy of this. He fkn knows it all.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I’m not a farmer and have no crop damage.
I think that’s a different story.
In Oklahoma if you are a farmer with crop damage you can get those but have to leave game lay.
That’s not really what we are talking about.

I have few acres. I’m very familiar with the Okla program. I pushed hard to get elk turned into OTC with quota vs biologists allocated transferable dep tags or making him come out and lay over elk/deer/pronghorn.

This program is alternative to the lay over program. Thus why you can’t get unlimited layover tags if you enter in to the eplus.

which option is better?

 

[Reburn]

Help me understand why that would matter with the EPLUS program? Is the land owner required to be a NM resident to have their land in the program?

I never said it did. I was responding to a comment about half the plates saying Texas.
No the land owner does not have to reside in NM to be a part of the Eplus program. But they do have to reside there to be considered RESIDENTS. You want to speak about draw break downs and land owner tags its germane to the conversation where the landowner resides as it relates to RES or NON RES.

 

[cuerro viejo]

You wont convince the guy of this. He fkn knows it all.

No you are just too jealous of money to understand or see the evolution of certain depredations programs.

I’m multi generational ranch/farm owner that has seen hundreds of animals laid over and wasted because of conflict. When I see a programs that not only buys tolerance and also opens up access to hunting public, with no waste of wildlife, I view that as HUGE win for wildlife and over all conservation.

so talk all the smack you want, but you are clearly ignorant on this subject.