.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Dave0317]

Back to hunting, the 77g 5.56 certainly has its place, specifically smaller static animals at shorter ranges. I would not classify 5.56 as an “all around” big game cartridge as indicated by the thread title since there are so many other great options.

I don’t think the title or contents “classify” the 223 in any particular category.
It’s a “discussion” about various animals being shot with 223 bullets. The discussion has resulted in many people sharing pictures and accounts of excellent lethality on various animals. In fact, I’m not sure anyone has shown a 223 to be regularly ineffective on any particular animal. Take the evidence as you will and hunt with what you like and what you are comfortable with.

But just be informed of what you may or may not gain and what you are giving up by going to other cartridges with regard to hit rate, lethality, etc.

 

[Mark.c]

Actually I did follow the thread. I am surprised as to some of the oddly defensive reactions from the 77grain 5.56 crowd when offered other points of view. I have seen lighter caliber shots big game animals go poorly resulting in loss or a drawn out track. Certainly use the legal caliber of your choice. It’s your hunt not mine.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

This is a thread with real world results. Actual dead animals with excellent photos, revealing how the animal died.

Coming in with strong opinions against using the cartridge, with zero/minimal experience or zero kills/proof of kills; when there is clear as day evidence littered throughout this thread, is just wild to me haha.

 

[omicron1792]

Actually I did follow the thread. I am surprised as to some of the oddly defensive reactions from the 77grain 5.56 crowd when offered other points of view. I have seen lighter caliber shots big game animals go poorly resulting in loss or a drawn out track. Certainly use the legal caliber of your choice. It’s your hunt not mine.

You offered straight opinion contrary to the data. Please provide data points to back up your opinion. If not, it’s just another contrary opinion trying to troll

 

[atmat]

You offered straight opinion contrary to the data. Please provide data points to back up your opinion. If not, it’s just another contrary opinion trying to troll

It’s always the same: “I heard someone who saw someone say that the animal didn’t even flinch when shot with a 223.”

 

[mt terry d]

Well it only took me a month to read, is the reason I joined the site, and is still boggling my mind.

I know it works and can see it but will continue to question until I go do it(but thats just a character flaw I have in regards to anything, I need to see results first hand to truly accept and stop questioning). .......

That's not a character flaw. Trust but verify.

Thanks god I have all my stuff already because if I didn't, this thread would have been expensive!

I didn't have all my stuff already. But it was worth it!

Edit* BTW, tell your friends this winter I'll have a very nice Browning A Bolt, stainless/synthetic, 300 win mag, 26" with
Leupold scope for sale; it's the perfect elk rifle!

 

[eric1115]

Back to hunting, the 77g 5.56 certainly has its place, specifically smaller static animals at shorter ranges. I would not classify 5.56 as an “all around” big game cartridge as indicated by the thread title since there are so many other great options.

Do you consider your position to be based on reason or on emotion?

If reason, what is the evidence that has led you to this position?

What evidence would it take to change your mind and cause you to view the .223 as an "all around big game cartridge"?

 

[RockAndSage]

Back to hunting, the 77g 5.56 certainly has its place, specifically smaller static animals at shorter ranges. I would not classify 5.56 as an “all around” big game cartridge as indicated by the thread title since there are so many other great options.

I think what most people miss in this discussion are factors relating to shootability - you can't just take the cartridge and math it out in isolation of that. Context and human factors matter immensely.

Yes, there are plenty of amazing cartridges out there - but how many can someone shoot 200 focused, careful rounds out of in an afternoon, without developing a flinch or breaking the bank? Now jack that up to 5000 rounds a year. How many heavy recoiling cartridges will allow someone to shoot from a dozen different improvised field positions without smoking their own forehead with their scope?

What you get out of 5.56 is excellent shot placement, due to practice, familiarity, and exceptional knowledge-based experience of your rifle.

Sure, you can move up to things that have similarly low recoil, like .22-250, 22Creedmoor, .243, 6CM, etc, but how much of that can you shoot on your personal budget, compared to .223? There's no replacement for experience - double the cost of ammo for most people, and you halve the amount of shooting most can do.

Psychology matters here, too - over the years, I've become pretty convinced that a huge part of "buck fever" or target panic comes from not knowing your weapon intimately. Not knowing you can smoke that animal from any number of positions at all sorts of distances, because you haven't done it in practice. That angle, that brush, that distance, that wind, those shadows, that dust, that snow. The only way to get that is with practice to the point where you've done it or something very close in practice hundreds of times. And you're just not going to get that with a heavy recoiling cartridge. And - the honest threshold for flinch or recoil-anticipation is a lot lower than most people will admit.

 

[Thegman]

I would not classify 5.56 as an “all around” big game cartridge as indicated by the thread title since there are so many other great options.

You may not have meant to say it this way, but this makes no sense; it's is a non-sequitur.

What does the fact that there are other great all-around options have to do with the 223 not being able to be one as well?

 

[WNYRP]

FNG made it through 398 pages. My mind is numb and blown at the same time...

 

[SBR Sarge]

FNG made it through 398 pages. My mind is numb and blown at the same time...

Good on ya for investing the time!

It does paint a compelling picture of the potential for the 223 caliber.

While I don’t foresee me doing any big game hunting with the 223, it is certainly working well for many and has lots going for it; light recoil, inexpensive practice ammo, good availability…

 

[Shraggs]

I think those of us who use and have killed with a 223/77 tmk or similar should type that ie 223/75 or 73 or 62 etc. Leaving it just to a 223 discussion I think continues to make this a head stamp discussion to those like mark c. Stuck on hunting myths and equating killing with caliber. Small calibers with higher fragmenting heavy for caliber bullets is the key - bullets matter more than head stamp.

Mark c, have you personally whiteness, ie used or been with anyone who’s killed an animal with a 223/77 tmks? Does following the thread mean you read every page?

 

[mtnwrunner]

FNG made it through 398 pages. My mind is numb and blown at the same time...

Get out the gold card.......

Randy

 

[Rolltide]

LOL...it would be hard to have made it this far and not already broken out the gold card!

 

[sierracharlie338]

LOL...it would be hard to have made it this far and not already broken out the gold card!

When I read through this thread the second time my account took a serious hit. Now my kid has her own RSS lol

 

[Pharmseller]

Some dude on 24hrcampfire has a stainless Tikka Varmint 1-8” in .223 Rem for sale.

No dog in the fight.

 

[Mark.c]

My opinion may be conventional but it is based on 30+ years of hunting experience. The dead deer “evidence” photos are certainly interesting. Any bullet can kill with a good shot but IMO using a small caliber un-bonded cup core target bullet for hunting big game is not ideal. Sierra recommends against it. My point is not “can” you use it but “should”. I certainly don’t require to anyone to agree with me.

From the Sierra website:
The 77 grain Tipped MatchKing (TMK) allows seating to an OAL that permits cartridges to be loaded into M16/AR15 magazines.

While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications.

This has been a great discussion and that is specifically what hunting forums are for. This thread title should be renamed however, if other points of view are not wanted.

 

[Bugger]

My opinion may be conventional but it is based on 30+ years of hunting experience. The dead deer “evidence” photos are certainly interesting. Any bullet can kill with a good shot but IMO using a small caliber un-bonded cup core target bullet for hunting big game is not ideal. Sierra recommends against it. My point is not “can” you use it but “should”. I certainly don’t require to anyone to agree with me.

From the Sierra website:
The 77 grain Tipped MatchKing (TMK) allows seating to an OAL that permits cartridges to be loaded into M16/AR15 magazines.

While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications.

This has been a great discussion and that is specifically what hunting forums are for. This thread title should be renamed however, if other points of view are not wanted.

Other points of view are welcome to be tested. This one has failed many times. Good luck tho.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

My opinion may be conventional but it is based on 30+ years of hunting experience. The dead deer “evidence” photos are certainly interesting. Any bullet can kill with a good shot but IMO using a small caliber un-bonded cup core target bullet for hunting big game is not ideal. Sierra recommends against it. My point is not “can” you use it but “should”. I certainly don’t require to anyone to agree with me.

From the Sierra website:
The 77 grain Tipped MatchKing (TMK) allows seating to an OAL that permits cartridges to be loaded into M16/AR15 magazines.

While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications.

This has been a great discussion and that is specifically what hunting forums are for. This thread title should be renamed however, if other points of view are not wanted.

What filter did you use to only see dead deer in this thread?

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

My opinion may be conventional but it is based on 30+ years of hunting experience. The dead deer “evidence” photos are certainly interesting. Any bullet can kill with a good shot but IMO using a small caliber un-bonded cup core target bullet for hunting big game is not ideal. Sierra recommends against it. My point is not “can” you use it but “should”. I certainly don’t require to anyone to agree with me.

From the Sierra website:
The 77 grain Tipped MatchKing (TMK) allows seating to an OAL that permits cartridges to be loaded into M16/AR15 magazines.

While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications.

This has been a great discussion and that is specifically what hunting forums are for. This thread title should be renamed however, if other points of view are not wanted.

If you're a better listener than you are a reader, here you go. The "manufacturer doesn't recommend it" point is covered pretty thoroughly.

Hunt Backcountry Podcast 469 | Why Smaller Calibers May Be Better For Big Game Hunting — The Experience Project

This podcast will challenge decades of

exomtngear.com

Hunt Backcountry Podcast 470 | Why Smaller Calibers May Be Better For Big Game Hunting (Part 2) — The Experience Project

This is the second half of a conversation that explores why smaller rifle calibers may be better for big game hunting. This Hunt Backcountry Podcast episode explores how different types of bullets create different wound channels, the relationship between impact velocity and bullet...

exomtngear.com

Hunt Backcountry Podcast 479 | Smaller Caliber Listener Q&A with Form — The Experience Project

Form returns to the Hunt Backcountry Podcast to answer your questions that were submitted after our two-part podcast series on

exomtngear.com