.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[northernalpine]

Not a .223/5.56 kill, so not in this thread, but here's 428lb of porcine goodness that fell to a 110gr in the shoulder from my .300blk (which is arguably crap by comparison)View attachment 732511View attachment 732512View attachment 732520

That’s a big ass hog

 

[PNWGATOR]

Why only lower 48? Are the targets or conditions different outside the lower 48?

Good question.

I had much less experience and was in the infancy of the journey when I wrote that post.

Inside of 450 yds there isn’t a creature on the North American continent I’d hesitate to use this on.

 

[ianpadron]

One of the biggest takeaways from this thread is I need some more buddies down South I can go pig hunting with.

 

[omicron1792]

Ran a deer cull in Mississippi this week using the 77 TMK over 24.0 gr TAC from 16” and 18” barrels. Chronographed to 2720 fps from the 18” barrel. Used thermal, nv, and day optics for kills. Tally was around 16 in three nights by myself, but many less than that recovered due to terrain. My goal was to reduce population as they were wiping out crop fields with 20+ head of deer per night per field eating everything down to the stalk. Unrecovered deer were found later by smell, vultures, and fleeing coyotes.


Shots from 20 yards to 415 yards. Anything not CNS meant a run or walk for typically less than 50 yards. Since this wasn’t for meat harvesting most deer were shot twice to ensure a quick kill. Still got some meat and even wrapped backstrap in bacon today for the 4th.

Overall this is a very impressive bullet, but make no mistake that mediocre shots will still yield a long or ultimately failed recovery. Short range shots had very explosive results generally without exit, but on neck hits it was still an exit.

Hydrostatic liquefaction was observed in the handful I harvested meat from in the field. Around an adult hand-size diameter of liquefaction was present with fragments contained within. Some broadside heart shots did exit and there was a water hose amount of blood from entrance and exit holes, all visible under thermal.
View attachment 732403

For the long, 400+ yard shot, there seemed to be an exit and the deer ran into thick brush with visibly broken shoulder and was doing the blood loss wobble. Was a simple 2.2 mil hold without wind, and impact was very evident. Similar behavior to the 155 ELDM in 308 I used recently for a 430 yard shot, but it was impacting at ~1800 FPS due to a short barrel gun.

Considering the size of southern deer, 77 TMK is a really perfect choice. An existing AR15 with tripler, lpvo, acog, or conventional scope makes for a great deer rifle within 400 yards thanks to good bullets.

What a great post

 

[omicron1792]

One of the biggest takeaways from this thread is I need some more buddies down South I can go pig hunting with.

Come on. Better yet bring a trailer and I’ll load you up for the trip back

 

[ianpadron]

Come on. Better yet bring a trailer and I’ll load you up for the trip back

I will 100% take you up on that.

And will trade Montana fishin/huntin' trips with anyone down South who has hogs/deer to kill or bass/crappie to catch. I'm a simple kind of man lol

 

[Hooknbullet2]

I will 100% take you up on that.

And will trade Montana fishin/huntin' trips with anyone down South who has hogs/deer to kill or bass/crappie to catch. I'm a simple kind of man lol

I’ve got plenty hogs and fish down here in south Texas to trade. Drop me an email [email protected]

 

[Gettincloser]

Not a .223/5.56 kill, so not in this thread, but here's 428lb of porcine goodness that fell to a 110gr in the shoulder from my .300blk (which is arguably crap by comparison)View attachment 732511View attachment 732512View attachment 732520

That is a brute! We shoot a lot of hogs and people tell is that they shoot 400# all the time but never scale them. We scale all of our big ones. The biggest we have hasmd so far is 298#. It is nice to see an actual (verified) BIG pig!

 

[JBradley500]

That thing looks like it hung out behind an Olive Garden or something.

 

[Gettincloser]

This was a fun hunt from Sunday. I snuck up a valley low on one side and heard antlers rattling, then spotted two Sitka Blacktail bucks sparring/push fighting on the opposite steeper hillside above me. I had my suppressed AR15 and thought "I bet I can get them both." 325 yards shooting uphill at them, 77gr TMK, wind was a little tricky but I thought it averaged out to about 10mph L-to-R. I set up my KUIU pack as a front rest and shot from the seated position. With their antlers still locked, I shot the orange-brown one first, and it jumped and turned around in a circle and then tried to go uphill, then fell and gradually slid/flopped 75-100 yards directly down toward me. The grey-brown one stood there looking at its sparring partner try to go uphill as I shot it, and it took a couple of steps before it started running on a diagonal in my general direction, clearly not knowing where the shots were from (thanks, suppressor!) and as it ran I put in a quick second shot, then hit it with a third shot as it plowed into the ground behind the bushes in the photo. Wound channels were good-- lost some rib meat, and glad I was doing gutless deboning because the wound channel on the grey-brown went through the diaphram and a little into the gut. No exits, but no tracking or searching for them either.

I know your post is nearly a year old but I am new to the thread and playing catchup to the rest of you.

That is absolutly beautiful county you get to hunt! I would have a hard time shooting 2 bucks at once in fear of cutting my trip short. I would wait a week... then shoot 2 at once. I would hate to leave that location! Thanks for sharing with us.

 

[Steve300xcw]

View attachment 730705

Anybody have any experience with these? Wondering if they are comparable to the 62 grain gold dot or federal fusion bullet.

Cant see the price. But I would be looking at targetsports or similar before I bought ammo from midway......

 

[Gettincloser]

That they are not but just to be clear I wasn't referencing little 200lb hogs that are running around the woods everywhere. Most full grown boars were in the 600lb range with some getting over 700. Most people don't even realize a pig can get that big. They are also omnivores.... Still not a bear, just saying.

I know ow the age of the post is back there a bit but as a FNG to this thread, I wanted to contribute in a meaningful way. (Even if in a very small token way.

I went to college in Huntsville, TX (Ag Department). One of the things we did that has left a lasting impression was visit a prison unit where they bred hogs for the purpose of butchering and feeding the inmates. Once we got to the breeding area, I saw the 2 massive sows that were fron and center next to a large bolder (on the shady side.) They were huge! I never knew a hog could get that big.... then the bolder moved! It was the boar in with them. They said he was on a diet as they did want him getting over 700-750# as he would break the sows back during the breeding process! Blew my mind.

2nd thing I would like to add is a 45LC that I shot, I had picked up some gun show special 45lc hollowpoint reloads (I have learned my lesson, never buy reloads at a gunshow) and assured they were great for hunting. We had a sow (sub 200#) in a trap and I shot her right in the forehead ( between they eyes and up an inch where the bone is thin). She flinched and charged the cage... repeat 3 more time before my dad pulled his Rugger Mk 2 22lr pistol and shot her in the same spot and dropped her stone dead with basic remington lightning bullets. The next day we found all of the 45lc shots had hit her. The lead was so soft and the opening so big, they were opening to nearly the size of a 50 cent piece and flattening on the skull. One side was the copper jacket and the other side was soft lead with the imprint of the hair on the forehead. Too slow, too soft, no good!

On the same note, a different sow (obviously) but the same trap and a 12 gauge slug. Shot between the eyes (not between the eyes and up an inch) at a steep downward angle (distance of a couple of feet). I dropped a hog. We went back to the house, got some water and a skinning knife. When we returned, there was a pissed off sow breathing through the new hole in her head and sounding dreadful but full of life and anger! ( I do not blame her.) We went back to the house, grabbed the shotgun and shot her through the earhole. She was down for good this time. So what happened? The shot between the eyes and directly down had nocked her out but had passed in front of the brain box! Not fatal!

Here are a couple of examples of under penatration with great placement and poor placement with plenty of penetration. You must have both, placement and the getty up to get there. I too have killed some old cows that were down and we could not get them back up. After 3 days of hauling them feed and water and b12 shots and penicillin, we would put them down with a 22. Ear hole or make an X from left eye to right ear and right eye to left ear. Thar is a great formula for X marks the spot! No problems!

I do not believe that there will be an issue with proper shot placement... what this thread is partly about. This is where the bigger bullet fixes bad shots argument comes in... but a 12 gauge is a fairly large bullet and it didn't fix poor shot placement.

I already have 200 rounds of 223 load with TMK that arrived today. Just need to get a Tikka 223 T3X compact (for my daughter... or so the story goes!) I will prove it out for myself before releasing her with it.

I hope these 1 off situations help.

 

[Luke S]

Unfortunately we didn't kill anything with the .223 yet. All the bears our crew killed were with my 6.5 Grendal and one with a .308.

Just to prove a point, we took a bear skull from a roughly 6 ft bore and shot it with a TMK. First shot went through the teeth into the skull. Second shot hit between the eyes and split it open, as in a 2-3 inch split with brains showing. Interestingly, I made a similar shot on a live grizzly once with a .375 Ruger and the entrance hole was barely visible (still dropped the bear instantly). So yes, you can punch through a bear skull head on with a small bullet.

 

[Pharmseller]

They let you butcher the inmates?

Tough place.



P

 

[Axlrod]

I know ow the age of the post is back there a bit but as a FNG to this thread, I wanted to contribute in a meaningful way. (Even if in a very small token way.

I went to college in Huntsville, TX (Ag Department). One of the things we did that has left a lasting impression was visit a prison unit where they bred hogs for the purpose of butchering and feeding the inmates. Once we got to the breeding area, I saw the 2 massive sows that were fron and center next to a large bolder (on the shady side.) They were huge! I never knew a hog could get that big.... then the bolder moved! It was the boar in with them. They said he was on a diet as they did want him getting over 700-750# as he would break the sows back during the breeding process! Blew my mind.

2nd thing I would like to add is a 45LC that I shot, I had picked up some gun show special 45lc hollowpoint reloads (I have learned my lesson, never buy reloads at a gunshow) and assured they were great for hunting. We had a sow (sub 200#) in a trap and I shot her right in the forehead ( between they eyes and up an inch where the bone is thin). She flinched and charged the cage... repeat 3 more time before my dad pulled his Rugger Mk 2 22lr pistol and shot her in the same spot and dropped her stone dead with basic remington lightning bullets. The next day we found all of the 45lc shots had hit her. The lead was so soft and the opening so big, they were opening to nearly the size of a 50 cent piece and flattening on the skull. One side was the copper jacket and the other side was soft lead with the imprint of the hair on the forehead. Too slow, too soft, no good!

On the same note, a different sow (obviously) but the same trap and a 12 gauge slug. Shot between the eyes (not between the eyes and up an inch) at a steep downward angle (distance of a couple of feet). I dropped a hog. We went back to the house, got some water and a skinning knife. When we returned, there was a pissed off sow breathing through the new hole in her head and sounding dreadful but full of life and anger! ( I do not blame her.) We went back to the house, grabbed the shotgun and shot her through the earhole. She was down for good this time. So what happened? The shot between the eyes and directly down had nocked her out but had passed in front of the brain box! Not fatal!

Here are a couple of examples of under penatration with great placement and poor placement with plenty of penetration. You must have both, placement and the getty up to get there. I too have killed some old cows that were down and we could not get them back up. After 3 days of hauling them feed and water and b12 shots and penicillin, we would put them down with a 22. Ear hole or make an X from left eye to right ear and right eye to left ear. Thar is a great formula for X marks the spot! No problems!

I do not believe that there will be an issue with proper shot placement... what this thread is partly about. This is where the bigger bullet fixes bad shots argument comes in... but a 12 gauge is a fairly large bullet and it didn't fix poor shot placement.

I already have 200 rounds of 223 load with TMK that arrived today. Just need to get a Tikka 223 T3X compact (for my daughter... or so the story goes!) I will prove it out for myself before releasing her with it.

I hope these 1 off situations help.

Not to be a smart ass. But you went to college, and don't know the difference between boulder and bolder??

 

[Ozarkansas]

Unfortunately we didn't kill anything with the .223 yet. All the bears our crew killed were with my 6.5 Grendal and one with a .308.

Just to prove a point, we took a bear skull from a roughly 6 ft bore and shot it with a TMK. First shot went through the teeth into the skull. Second shot hit between the eyes and split it open, as in a 2-3 inch split with brains showing. Interestingly, I made a similar shot on a live grizzly once with a .375 Ruger and the entrance hole was barely visible (still dropped the bear instantly). So yes, you can punch through a bear skull head on with a small bullet.

Any chance you’ll post those grendel results in the 6.5 kill thread?

 

[Gettincloser]

Not to be a smart ass. But you went to college, and don't know the difference between boulder and bolder??

I said I went to Sam Houston! We are still working with pictures and not full words. If auto correct gives a suggestion, you assume it is right and you are wrong...

 

[Pharmseller]

Not to be a smart ass. But you went to college, and don't know the difference between boulder and bolder??

Dude, give him a break, he’s wiped out from butchering the inmates.




P

 

[Gettincloser]

Dude, give him a break, he’s wiped out from butchering the inmates.




P

Punctuation is key. That was still a theory when I went to school.

 

[robtattoo]

Punctuation is key. That was still a theory when I went to school.

It's the difference between helping your Uncle, Jack, off a horse & helping your Uncle Jack off a horse