.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[cheekibreeki]

Ran a deer cull in Mississippi this week using the 77 TMK over 24.0 gr TAC from 16” and 18” barrels. Chronographed to 2720 fps from the 18” barrel. Used thermal, nv, and day optics for kills. Tally was around 16 in three nights by myself, but many less than that recovered due to terrain. My goal was to reduce population as they were wiping out crop fields with 20+ head of deer per night per field eating everything down to the stalk. Unrecovered deer were found later by smell, vultures, and fleeing coyotes.


Shots from 20 yards to 415 yards. Anything not CNS meant a run or walk for typically less than 50 yards. Since this wasn’t for meat harvesting most deer were shot twice to ensure a quick kill. Still got some meat and even wrapped backstrap in bacon today for the 4th.

Overall this is a very impressive bullet, but make no mistake that mediocre shots will still yield a long or ultimately failed recovery. Short range shots had very explosive results generally without exit, but on neck hits it was still an exit.

Hydrostatic liquefaction was observed in the handful I harvested meat from in the field. Around an adult hand-size diameter of liquefaction was present with fragments contained within. Some broadside heart shots did exit and there was a water hose amount of blood from entrance and exit holes, all visible under thermal.


For the long, 400+ yard shot, there seemed to be an exit and the deer ran into thick brush with visibly broken shoulder and was doing the blood loss wobble. Was a simple 2.2 mil hold without wind, and impact was very evident. Similar behavior to the 155 ELDM in 308 I used recently for a 430 yard shot, but it was impacting at ~1800 FPS due to a short barrel gun.

Considering the size of southern deer, 77 TMK is a really perfect choice. An existing AR15 with tripler, lpvo, acog, or conventional scope makes for a great deer rifle within 400 yards thanks to good bullets.

 

[Tell]

3) As for elk hunting with a 223 (still blows my mind... but it has been well documented and proven!) Is it taking 2, 3, 4 shots on average to bring them down or are 85%+ one shot and down kills? (Yes, I know of and have seen many magnum hunters put multiple rounds in an elk before they tip over. They are big animals, like a moose, and it can take a moment for blood pressure to drop before they succumb to the injury. Thus allowing time to get off multiple shots in that time window. Ethically, shooting till they drop. Is that more the situation? I would assume they would have less "reaction" to run with a smaller diameter caliber and suppressor to spook them into running but what do I know... I have never shot an elk. But it might be in the cards this year.


I read the thread in its entirety last year around this time, and I decided to try it for myself last hunting season, so my experience is very limited. That said, it was a one shot one kill season for me, but only because of the circumstances. This past year, both animals (deer and elk) took off immediately after the first shot. I was unsupressed. I didn’t have a chance for a follow up shot. Both died within about 50 yards. They went directly from running immediately after the shot was taken to piling up stone dead.

This coming year I will be hunting suppressed, and if their behavior is different and I have any opportunity at making a follow up shot, I’m going to take it. And I’d do so with any cartridge if given the chance. Id just do it faster with the 223 due to the limited recoil and all the practice I’ve had with it.

 

[Clarktar]

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET.

---

“Bullets matter more than headstamps.”

“Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”.

I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened.

The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223 is where I ended up after many discussions and objective data regarding bullet performance and numerous pics of field results.

Now for the delivery system. Accurate. Repeatable. Reliable. Reasonable weight to afford steady shot placement and the ability to spot my own impacts yet packable. Tikka T3x, vertical grip, Sportsmatch rings, SWFA 6x MQ in mills. Replaced the trigger spring with a yo Dave, adjusted to my liking, then degreased everything and locked all of the screws down with loctite and got started.

The package checks all of the boxes. Plus, it’s FUN! Time at the range is spent learning to call wind, trigger control, spotting your own impacts and figuring out why a shot did or did not end up where you wanted it. No brake. No flinch. Inexpensive to shoot. The fun factor plus the ability to be able to afford to shoot a lot goes a long way to learning and understanding shooting, accuracy and precision.

With all of that said, I’ve decided to use 77 TMK out of a .223 from this delivery system for bear, deer and elk this season.

Opportunity presented itself a couple of days ago. I killed a mature, dry sow with the 77 TMK. Bullet performance exceeded all expectations! The terminal performance is on par with anything I’ve seen in a .284 or .30. Unreal performance. The bullet is a BEAST!

Practice will continue throughout the summer in preparation for the upcoming deer and elk seasons.

Based on my sample of one, the 77 TMK out of a .223 is truly a lethal combination well suited to a dedicated lower 48 big game rifle.

Would love to hear about others experiences with this bullet or similar bulletts!

Why only lower 48? Are the targets or conditions different outside the lower 48?

 

[cheekibreeki]

Using a suppressor just obfuscates the shot a fair bit, but in day time animals are still as reactive to it as unsuppressed in my experience. If you want a follow-up shot you need to set your kill zone to be predictive of the animal movement once they’re in the middle, and be able to hit runners in that area.

At night, this changes a lot on animals from my experience. They often take an impact and jog a little bit away, then collect themselves a little or walk slowly as they bleed out. Follow-up shots are then limited by your optic resolution, being NV (low and moonlight dependent) or thermal (best but even a 640 res makes PID past 200 hard).

 

[cheekibreeki]

I am on the opposite side from where an ultralight T3X and fixed scope are recommended. Using 223 should reap rewards of the cartridge, and a semi-auto is far nicer to use. A 1MOA performance is plenty adequate for <500 yard kills.

Primary rifle and some recordings off the clipon.

 

[Ajsomp]

Using a suppressor just obfuscates the shot a fair bit, but in day time animals are still as reactive to it as unsuppressed in my experience. If you want a follow-up shot you need to set your kill zone to be predictive of the animal movement once they’re in the middle, and be able to hit runners in that area.

At night, this changes a lot on animals from my experience. They often take an impact and jog a little bit away, then collect themselves a little or walk slowly as they bleed out. Follow-up shots are then limited by your optic resolution, being NV (low and moonlight dependent) or thermal (best but even a 640 res makes PID past 200 hard).

Interesting. I have a different experience with suppressed vs unsuppressed. I’ve watched animals drop next to the rest of the herd and the herd not move. I’ve also seen guys take suppressed shots, miss, and connect on the second shot without the animal moving. I have yet to see that happen unsuppressed. I’ve also seen the entire valley blown out by one shot unsuppressed, and animals a hundred meters away still bedded when shooting suppressed.

Those experiences coupled with hearing protection for myself is why I only hunt suppressed - unless I’m going somewhere I can’t have one. But I understand my experience is only my own and you’ve seen different

 

[SC HUNTER]

@Big_wals that pig you shot is still a good one since it's dead. I've killed hundreds of pigs maybe into the thousands I don't know for sure. We shoot them all the time in peanut fields during the summer here in Southwest Georgia and their not some bullet proof creature people say they are. Hit them where that red dot is and their pushing their face across the ground for a little ways and dead.
*I will shoot them wherever I can hit them if their in the crops.*

 

[cheekibreeki]

Interesting. I have a different experience with suppressed vs unsuppressed. I’ve watched animals drop next to the rest of the herd and the herd not move. I’ve also seen guys take suppressed shots, miss, and connect on the second shot without the animal moving. I have yet to see that happen unsuppressed. I’ve also seen the entire valley blown out by one shot unsuppressed, and animals a hundred meters away still bedded when shooting suppressed.

Those experiences coupled with hearing protection for myself is why I only hunt suppressed - unless I’m going somewhere I can’t have one. But I understand my experience is only my own and you’ve seen different

I think a big factor here is these deer have heard a lot of suppressed shots already. In one herd of 20 ish in a field, only half moved after one round from my Mk12 with an AEM5. The other half just loitered. This was a day time shot as well. For night time thermal use those that loitered just turned into 3-4 kills in quick succession.

Also I wear sordins or comtacs when shooting suppressed ARs. The port pop is almost as loud as a gunshot itself. There are no hearing safe AR can setups without something like 300 BLK subsonics. Suppressed bolt gun without earpro? Generally not needed for a handful of shots.

 

[robtattoo]

In central TX we do not get many deer over 200#. Hogs on the other hand, we have had above 290 (3x) but never broke 300#. This sounds like a fun setup to hunt hay fields for the deer/hog/coyote.

I have seen hog pictures but I have not seen "big" hog pictures. Are they carrying them off, people are not talking about it? I wouldn't think that big hogs are tougher than moose... but they can have a 2-3" thick shield outside the shoulder. Not sure about moose hide/shield... feel free to educate me with regard to big hogs as well.

*At this rate, I will get to the end of this thread in the next 6 months!

Not a .223/5.56 kill, so not in this thread, but here's 428lb of porcine goodness that fell to a 110gr in the shoulder from my .300blk (which is arguably crap by comparison)

 

[rbrettallen]

I haven't used the 77 TMK, but the 75 Swift Scirocco II has given me very very good results

I'll second that....

 

[WestTN2288]

I am on the opposite side from where an ultralight T3X and fixed scope are recommended. Using 223 should reap rewards of the cartridge, and a semi-auto is far nicer to use.

X2

 

[Ozarkansas]

I am on the opposite side from where an ultralight T3X and fixed scope are recommended. Using 223 should reap rewards of the cartridge, and a semi-auto is far nicer to use

I’m in the same boat here. I wouldn’t turn down a .223 T3x, but in the land of 6 deer tags and unlimited pigs where shots seldom exceed 100 yards, a light AR is tough to beat.

 

[northernalpine]

Not a .223/5.56 kill, so not in this thread, but here's 428lb of porcine goodness that fell to a 110gr in the shoulder from my .300blk (which is arguably crap by comparison)View attachment 732511View attachment 732512View attachment 732520

That’s a big ass hog

 

[PNWGATOR]

Why only lower 48? Are the targets or conditions different outside the lower 48?

Good question.

I had much less experience and was in the infancy of the journey when I wrote that post.

Inside of 450 yds there isn’t a creature on the North American continent I’d hesitate to use this on.

 

[ianpadron]

One of the biggest takeaways from this thread is I need some more buddies down South I can go pig hunting with.

 

[omicron1792]

Ran a deer cull in Mississippi this week using the 77 TMK over 24.0 gr TAC from 16” and 18” barrels. Chronographed to 2720 fps from the 18” barrel. Used thermal, nv, and day optics for kills. Tally was around 16 in three nights by myself, but many less than that recovered due to terrain. My goal was to reduce population as they were wiping out crop fields with 20+ head of deer per night per field eating everything down to the stalk. Unrecovered deer were found later by smell, vultures, and fleeing coyotes.


Shots from 20 yards to 415 yards. Anything not CNS meant a run or walk for typically less than 50 yards. Since this wasn’t for meat harvesting most deer were shot twice to ensure a quick kill. Still got some meat and even wrapped backstrap in bacon today for the 4th.

Overall this is a very impressive bullet, but make no mistake that mediocre shots will still yield a long or ultimately failed recovery. Short range shots had very explosive results generally without exit, but on neck hits it was still an exit.

Hydrostatic liquefaction was observed in the handful I harvested meat from in the field. Around an adult hand-size diameter of liquefaction was present with fragments contained within. Some broadside heart shots did exit and there was a water hose amount of blood from entrance and exit holes, all visible under thermal.
View attachment 732403

For the long, 400+ yard shot, there seemed to be an exit and the deer ran into thick brush with visibly broken shoulder and was doing the blood loss wobble. Was a simple 2.2 mil hold without wind, and impact was very evident. Similar behavior to the 155 ELDM in 308 I used recently for a 430 yard shot, but it was impacting at ~1800 FPS due to a short barrel gun.

Considering the size of southern deer, 77 TMK is a really perfect choice. An existing AR15 with tripler, lpvo, acog, or conventional scope makes for a great deer rifle within 400 yards thanks to good bullets.

What a great post

 

[omicron1792]

One of the biggest takeaways from this thread is I need some more buddies down South I can go pig hunting with.

Come on. Better yet bring a trailer and I’ll load you up for the trip back

 

[ianpadron]

Come on. Better yet bring a trailer and I’ll load you up for the trip back

I will 100% take you up on that.

And will trade Montana fishin/huntin' trips with anyone down South who has hogs/deer to kill or bass/crappie to catch. I'm a simple kind of man lol

 

[Hooknbullet2]

I will 100% take you up on that.

And will trade Montana fishin/huntin' trips with anyone down South who has hogs/deer to kill or bass/crappie to catch. I'm a simple kind of man lol

I’ve got plenty hogs and fish down here in south Texas to trade. Drop me an email [email protected]

 

[Gettincloser]

Not a .223/5.56 kill, so not in this thread, but here's 428lb of porcine goodness that fell to a 110gr in the shoulder from my .300blk (which is arguably crap by comparison)View attachment 732511View attachment 732512View attachment 732520

That is a brute! We shoot a lot of hogs and people tell is that they shoot 400# all the time but never scale them. We scale all of our big ones. The biggest we have hasmd so far is 298#. It is nice to see an actual (verified) BIG pig!