.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

They are SS

I shoulda pulled the trigger. The BP sale is over.

 

[Grundy53]

On sale 500 CT 77 TMKs

Creedmoor Sports - Precision Reloading and Shooting Gear

Shoot and Reload with the Pros! Creedmoor Sports has served the Precision Shooting Community for over 40 years in Centerfire, Small-bore, Air Rifle and Pistol Disciplines.

www.creedmoorsports.com

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[Ozarkansas]

JJ3, congratulations on the nice buck!

Here are some more details on my family’s experience this year to add to the data. The lack of blood trail with the 77 TMK is the reason my dad switched to the 62 gr Fusion. Both deer shot with the TMK made it to the woods before dying. They both died within 40 yards of where they were shot. For him, I think it was an issue of shot placement (too far back). He hit the doe with 62 gr Fusion a little further forward and the deer died in the field.

I also killed two with the 77 TMK this year with a 16” AR-15. The first was around 200 yards. I hit low and just behind the shoulder. There was a huge blood trail and the deer was less than 20 yards from where I shot.

After seeing the lack of blood trail on my dad’s two deer, I came back to this thread and saw recommendations for a high shoulder shot. The second deer I shot was around 100 yards and I went with the high shoulder shot. It was nice seeing the deer drop immediately.


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How was the wound channel/penetration on the Fusion?

the poor blood trails but quick deaths matches what I’ve seen from .223s and more frangible 6mm bullets. Shooting in the shoulder certainly solves the problem but I can’t stand to waste that much meat if it can be avoided.

 

[JJ3]

Thanks for the compliments on the buck, is getting mounted. It’s been a slow year here with a huge acorn crop. Very little movement of the whitetail population compared to years past. Specifically the does…our group typically harvests 30-40 does per season as suggested by state biologist, this year we are at 13. I have seen a total of 3 with no shot opportunity.

I say that to say I was not expecting this specific buck or the amount of bucks I’ve seen in general. My buck tags are filled for the year and I usually don’t do that. Close to a dozen spikes, 6 and 8pt collectively and have 4 other nice 8, 10 and a 12pt on camera.

How was the wound channel/penetration on the Fusion?

the poor blood trails but quick deaths matches what I’ve seen from .223s and more frangible 6mm bullets. Shooting in the shoulder certainly solves the problem but I can’t stand to waste that much meat if it can be avoided.

I searched the thread last night for “62 fusion” lots of info and input from the community. They work and appear to exit more reliably.

A guy in Kansas harvested a really nice 10pt at around 200yd I believe with several necropsy pics. It also looks really good in gel tests.

I picked up a bunch of 62 fusion pulls a while back and have a great load with A2520 and TAC. Both over 3000fps in 18” barrel and my 10.5 and 12.5 are consistent poa/poi to 200yd with them. May try them out tomorrow from 10.5”

 

[Evasal]

if 223 with 1:8" twist using 77 TMK is good... 22-250 with 1:8" twist using 77 TMK must be great?

(=

 

[waterengineer]

How was the wound channel/penetration on the Fusion?

the poor blood trails but quick deaths matches what I’ve seen from .223s and more frangible 6mm bullets. Shooting in the shoulder certainly solves the problem but I can’t stand to waste that much meat if it can be avoided.

The penetration was good and there was an exit. The exit in the hide wasn’t very large. We were in a hurry and didn’t inspect the wound channel too closely. I wouldn’t hesitate to use the 62 gr Fusion on a NC whitetail.

I also prefer to not waste a lot of meat. Where I shoot in the future will be based on how close the deer are to the thick brush where it is easy to lose a deer without a blood trail.

 

[Nomosendero]

That is what I do!

 

[SBR Sarge]

Black Hill 5.56 77gr TMK in stock at Bone Frog.

Honestly, I should buy some. But I don’t see me hunting with 223/5.56 anytime so you all might as well clean them out of their stock!

5.56 77GR Black Hills Tipped Match King TMK (D556N19)

5.56 77GR Black Hills Tipped Match King TMK (D556N19) Black Hills' focus is on handcrafting ammunition for serious folks who demand it works every time without fail. No magic loads. No gimmickry. They are certainly not well versed in corporate speak either. Instead, they stake our reputation on...

www.bonefroggunclub.com

 

[h2so4]

Black Hill 5.56 77gr TMK in stock at Bone Frog.

Honestly, I should buy some. But I don’t see me hunting with 223/5.56 anytime so you all might as well clean them out of their stock!

5.56 77GR Black Hills Tipped Match King TMK (D556N19)

5.56 77GR Black Hills Tipped Match King TMK (D556N19) Black Hills' focus is on handcrafting ammunition for serious folks who demand it works every time without fail. No magic loads. No gimmickry. They are certainly not well versed in corporate speak either. Instead, they stake our reputation on...

www.bonefroggunclub.com

Anyone on the fence about getting the black hills 77gr tmk should go ahead and get it now while it’s available. It won’t be made for a good while now. What exactly a while is, I’m not sure. But the previous dry spell was 8-12 months (if not longer, I don’t have the exact dates at the moment).
Especially at these prices. Expecting a price increase later this year.

 

[Drenalin]

Saw a couple more whitetails hit with the 73 ELD-M yesterday, both around 150 yards. One was a spine hit, no vitals, and required a cleanup shot. The other was a good hit, with the deer running about 50 yards before expiring. Bullet traveled through lungs into offside shoulder with the amount of damage (read borderline excessive) I’ve come to expect from this bullet.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Long time lurker...time to add a data point.

First off I have followed the thread since the fist few posts and have read it in entirety a couple times over the last couple years. I update the thread daily during hunting season also.

I typically hunt ridge areas and fields in NWGA. Shots range from 10-400yds. I prefer to carry my 10.5" 300 Blackout suppressed SBR, 1-4 scope, with Barnes Tac-Tx as it is easy to carry, does not require ear pro and has never let me down. It has also has yet to require a tracking job more than 30yds. I am comfortable with a 250yd shot with this setup.

I am a AR15 hobbyist. I like the ergos, Im comfortable with one and I shoot them often from 10-300yds in various positions at my local rifle club. For all the reasons pointed out in this thread I gravitate towards 223/556 but I still hunt with my 300BO.

The new area I am hunting this year is so thick plus leaves have been late to fall that my Vortex 1-4 just isnt doing it.....I missed a couple doe opportunities recently. I did not have time to swap optics so I took my 10.5" red dot equipped 556 house gun with 73ELDs out on Christmas eve morning to get those does I missed the previous outing.

Well less than an hour in the 180lb +/- 7point we call Loki that Ive been watching on camera for 6 months comes in to about 40yds stopping in one of the very, very few shooting lanes available in this spot. In the 10sec transaction he took a 73 ELD in center of chest, turned with tail down and slowly trotted off. I felt like it was a good hit and thought I heard him crash down the North (steep) side hill out of sight. I waited an hour to get down.....alone with my thoughts.

Once I got down to find him I found ZERO blood or hair.....nothing. I was sick. Looked for 1.5hrs before calling in the dog and help. Dog found him in 5min, buried in a ravine head down 30yd from where he was hit. We drug him an hour out of the ridges to where a vehicle could access for the remaining haul.

We do gutless processing, were wore out and were in a hurry to say the least so no necropsy pics. Opening him up he was full of blood, I assume the heart was destroyed and pumping it into the chest cavity.

Soooo.....It work and worked well at killing a mature buck. Maybe better than my beloved barnes 110s. It did not leave any blood to track and in this area thats a problem without a good dog. I will try the 77TMK before our season is over

View attachment 651474View attachment 651475View attachment 651476View attachment 651477

We shot one in the chest with a 25-06 this year, no blood trail. I think your issue, and mine, was shot placement, and not bullet used.

 

[Tahr]

I tried to search and yielded nothing. And since this thread has the most comprehensive collection of 223 data/experiences, has any on tried the Nosler 224 64gr Protected Point Bonded Solid Base?
View attachment 652279

Here you go. 64 grn BSB. Shot at 200 yards down hill. Quartering towards me and hit in front of chest. Ran about 60 yards. My dog found it and I dont recall any blood trail. Good angled penetration and exit through the lungs and paunch. The exit was narrow but I was quite satisfied with the performance. 1:9 twist barrel. 3000fps MV. Handload. Pics: Deer with rifle. Exit. Pointing to entry. Exit and dog.

 

[roosiebull]

I may be odd man out here, but I have never cared about or relied on blood trails in all of my rifle hunting, I can’t recall trying to get on one aside from a couple misses as a precaution before walking away

The vast majority of my hunting is done within 2 miles of the ocean on the Oregon coast in the really bad brush zone (a few miles east it gets a little better in general)

Blood trails have never seemed very reliable with a bullet ime, though sometimes I will be surprised with just a mess. That aspect of the 223 doesn’t bother me at all, and I figured my experience was a generalization, but I see it’s not

One thing I have always valued a lot is getting back on target fast, my first rifle critter was a blacktail buck that I shot in the base of the neck and watched him fall faster than gravity in the scope (first rifle I bought was a 7-08 and put a fixed 4x leupold on it)

That has stood out to me for ever, but I will always pick 2 bullets on target vs a blood trail with a firearm

Bear are the only critters that I would like a blood trail on, and coincidentally they are the least likely to get one regardless, but they are always close to a complete shithole and don’t stand around dazed like deer and elk when shot, they haul ass into the worst habitat around and don’t leave as defined tracks like a hooved animal, but it doesn’t seem to matter what you shoot them with, they either barely bleed or create a horror scene, but if the shot is good, you can be pretty confident they aren’t far, they have no will to live with damaged lungs… also why I don’t get fancy on shot angles with bear, I want a good angle on both lungs, and they need to be static or I’m not shooting… a wounded bear in dense brush is over rated, I have been there and don’t care to repeat it (and it was a braked rifle and in that situation I couldn’t wear ear pro and had to shoot that rifle twice without ear protection)

I’m not too concerned about blood trails, I’ve never expected them with a rifle, but I do value well placed shots, staying on target and fast follow up shots.

Unfortunately a 223 isn’t legal for elk here, so I need to figure out something else for my daughter, I’m thinking a compact rokstok and either rebarreling my 308 to a 6creed or getting her an 8 twist 243 and keeping the 308 (most likely) but she’ll be using my 223 for spring bear, and I’ll be using it for all of my rifle hunting

 

[Tahr]

2nd deer as above re 64grn BSB. 290 yards. Full penetration shoulder shot. Ran 80 yards steep down hill and ended up in terrible place so no autopsy pics, But again, good enough performance. No blood trail at all and wouldn't have found him without my dog. Bullet entry marked on pic with dog.

 

[SamsonMan22]

I value watching the impact through the scope way more than a blood trail even in thick heavy cover. I have had plenty of well hit animals with larger cartridges leave no blood trail even with multiple hits. I have also had bullets/ cartridges leave great blood trails that resulted in long incapacitation times. The fast killing ability of the 77tmk plus the low recoil of the 223 is way more valuable than a blood trail for me. If they die within a few yards a blood trail isn’t needed and the 223 is such an easy shooter the ability to put the bullet in the right spot and see it happen tends to not let them go far.

 

[TexasHTR]

73 eld-m, ~2525 impact velocity, 100# west TX WT doe, 35 yard run, pic is exit side

 

[Moosehunter]

So it begins...

 

[ericacymcdonald]

I hope this transfers over to the archery world soon, I want a flagship bow with 34" ATA and 7" brace height for accuracy in the field over all the new speed bows

 

[SteveFlock]

I hope this transfers over to the archery world soon, I want a flagship bow with 34" ATA and 7" brace height for accuracy in the field over all the new speed bows

So why not the Mathews Atlas. In fact it has a larger brace heigh and is still fast.

 

[Nomosendero]

?