.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[MT-nuffgun]

Well I read the whole thread. Now I am wondering what it would cost to get my
CZ 527 American rebarreled to a .223 1:8 twist or maybe even a .223 AI. I have killed a few whitetails with it over the years with 55 and 60 gr SP’s but these 77 TMKs seem to be the ticket. I guess I am going to have to do some investigating.

 

[Towhee]

I never would have predicted the damage seen in this thread to be the work of a .223.

If it works it works. Imho never any sense in taking more recoil than you have too for an application. I'd tote a .223 for deer and antelope.

 

[salar]

Hi all. Long time listener first time caller. Got into hunting just over a year ago (Dec. 2022). It's been quite a journey. Initially bought a Tikka 6.5 CM and brought it on my first "big game" hunt for Sitka Blacktail. After blowing the shit out of a couple of those deer and losing a bunch of meat started thinking about something smaller. On that same trip met a guy who hunts Sitka’s with a .223. Shortly after I got home ordered a 5.56 Ruger American Ranch. Eventually found this thread and as 77 TMK factory ammo is not readily available here in Canada decided to shoot the 73 eld m. Fortunately, it shot well under sub MOA!! Since then, this combo (between myself and a few friends) has put down over a dozen blacktail. The furthest I have had one go is less than 10 feet! Fast forward to this November. Long story short went on a group hunt where I had no intention of shooting a moose with this rifle (just brought it along for fun as I was up the last time we went out but one of the guys in my group forgot the key to his lock so 2 rifles between 3 of us). My partners and I went to opposite ends of the bog and unfortunately/fortunately the moose came my way. First saw the animal at 200 yds, not huge but still a bull moose. After reading the whole thread I was "confident" the bullet would do the work but still had some reservations so called him into 110 yds. Put the 1st shot behind the shoulder. The animal stumbled and I knew he was mortally wounded but as I was still a hesitant (.223 and new to hunting after all) and didn't want to track a moose though a bog known to be crawling with G bears so made a follow up shot. The animal didn't move more than 3 steps before falling over. 1st shot was perfectly broad side and second was rushed and ended up clipping the front shoulder resulting in a baseball sized hole and a bunch of lost meat. Both bullets were recovered in the offside hide. 1st performed perfectly (great expansion) and I think the one that hit the front shoulder ended up separating from the jacket. Needless to say .223 works. Sorry about the quality of the photos wasn’t too concerned about taking pics (see G bear comment above). Would I purposefully shoot a moose with a .223 again...maybe not. Not because of the performance just to have a little more confidence and range. Ideal gun for Sitka’s though and maybe eventually a mountain goat at close range! Pic of my goat shot with 6.5 just to rub it in!! Sorry...

 

[SBR Sarge]

I know I’ve seen it in here but can’t remember. What impact velocity am I needing with the 77 gr TMK?

I might have to take my 10” Noveske into a rifle area for deer next year.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Well I read the whole thread. Now I am wondering what it would cost to get my
CZ 527 American rebarreled to a .223 1:8 twist or maybe even a .223 AI. I have killed a few whitetails with it over the years with 55 and 60 gr SP’s but these 77 TMKs seem to be the ticket. I guess I am going to have to do some investigating.

Arent those a 1:9?

 

[MT-nuffgun]

Arent those a 1:9?

I think the varmint models were, but the American is a 1:12.

 

[swavescatter]

I know I’ve seen it in here but can’t remember. What impact velocity am I needing with the 77 gr TMK?

I might have to take my 10” Noveske into a rifle area for deer next year.

Safe zone is above 1800fps.

 

[Crete]

I use my .223 on roe when I can.
I use nosler 60gr ballistic tips. They pack a fair punch.
I just try to be careful to not hit major bones such as shoulder/spine or it makes a big hole and damages a lot of meat.
although no more damage than most other calibre's.

The only reason I don't use it all the time is because I usually take my .308 so I can shoot a red if the opportunity arises.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

Alright guys, I'm gearing up to grab my first Tikka. I've read this whole thread in little bits at a time but I want to verify I didn't miss some important detail.

If I plan to handload either way, is there no downside to a 1/8 22-250 vs the 223?

Pretty much just makes a 600yd RSS correct?

 

[swavescatter]

Alright guys, I'm gearing up to grab my first Tikka. I've read this whole thread in little bits at a time but I want to verify I didn't miss some important detail.

If I plan to handload either way, is there no downside to a 1/8 22-250 vs the 223?

Pretty much just makes a 600yd RSS correct?

I imagine downsides would be ammo/brass availability, barrel life, slight recoil, powder cost if reloading. But otherwise yeah it just extends the range I believe. I'm still mulling over whether to turn my 243 into a 22 or 6 creed, but I have considered the 22-250.

 

[atmat]

I imagine downsides would be ammo/brass availability, barrel life, slight recoil, powder cost if reloading.

I would agree and also say the combined downside of all of those is less practice, which is probably the most important piece.

 

[xsn10s]

Alright guys, I'm gearing up to grab my first Tikka. I've read this whole thread in little bits at a time but I want to verify I didn't miss some important detail.

If I plan to handload either way, is there no downside to a 1/8 22-250 vs the 223?

Pretty much just makes a 600yd RSS correct?

I've been debating between the .223 vs the 22-250. Since I have brass and dies for both the difference comes down to powder. Both availability and charge weights. It seems like the it's a difference of ten grains of powder between the two. But .223 powder seems easier to get as are SRP, for now. It's a toss up and I lean towards the .223/ 5.56.

 

[justinspicher]

Hi all. Long time listener first time caller. Got into hunting just over a year ago (Dec. 2022). It's been quite a journey. Initially bought a Tikka 6.5 CM and brought it on my first "big game" hunt for Sitka Blacktail. After blowing the shit out of a couple of those deer and losing a bunch of meat started thinking about something smaller. On that same trip met a guy who hunts Sitka’s with a .223. Shortly after I got home ordered a 5.56 Ruger American Ranch. Eventually found this thread and as 77 TMK factory ammo is not readily available here in Canada decided to shoot the 73 eld m. Fortunately, it shot well under sub MOA!! Since then, this combo (between myself and a few friends) has put down over a dozen blacktail. The furthest I have had one go is less than 10 feet! Fast forward to this November. Long story short went on a group hunt where I had no intention of shooting a moose with this rifle (just brought it along for fun as I was up the last time we went out but one of the guys in my group forgot the key to his lock so 2 rifles between 3 of us). My partners and I went to opposite ends of the bog and unfortunately/fortunately the moose came my way. First saw the animal at 200 yds, not huge but still a bull moose. After reading the whole thread I was "confident" the bullet would do the work but still had some reservations so called him into 110 yds. Put the 1st shot behind the shoulder. The animal stumbled and I knew he was mortally wounded but as I was still a hesitant (.223 and new to hunting after all) and didn't want to track a moose though a bog known to be crawling with G bears so made a follow up shot. The animal didn't move more than 3 steps before falling over. 1st shot was perfectly broad side and second was rushed and ended up clipping the front shoulder resulting in a baseball sized hole and a bunch of lost meat. Both bullets were recovered in the offside hide. 1st performed perfectly (great expansion) and I think the one that hit the front shoulder ended up separating from the jacket. Needless to say .223 works. Sorry about the quality of the photos wasn’t too concerned about taking pics (see G bear comment above). Would I purposefully shoot a moose with a .223 again...maybe not. Not because of the performance just to have a little more confidence and range. Ideal gun for Sitka’s though and maybe eventually a mountain goat at close range! Pic of my goat shot with 6.5 just to rub it in!! Sorry...

Now this is just plain awesome!

 

[ElPollo]

Alright guys, I'm gearing up to grab my first Tikka. I've read this whole thread in little bits at a time but I want to verify I didn't miss some important detail.

If I plan to handload either way, is there no downside to a 1/8 22-250 vs the 223?

Pretty much just makes a 600yd RSS correct?

I considered a 22-250 or a 22 CM, but ultimately it came down to recognizing that I could not keep up with the handloading for the amount of ammo I wanted to throw through the gun. If you blow 200-500 rounds in an average weekend, that gets to be a lot of work without a progressive set up. I went with the 223 because I can get reasonable factory practice ammo like Hornady Frontier 75 gr. The 223 TMK loads I am using are still staying above 1800 to about 550 yards.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

The 223 TMK loads I am using are still staying above 1800 to about 550 yards.

Nice. What barrel length are you running?

 

[ElPollo]

I just got it out last weekend to site in and get initial chrono numbers with an 22” barrel. I haven’t cut it yet. Intended to take I down to 18 which should get me those velocity figures at 550. But after the factory velocity figures @fwafwow posted in the 223 barrel length and velocity thread with a 16.5, I’m leaning toward going shorter and hotter. I have a 16” 6.5 cm and it’s a darned handy length with my can. Either way, the 223 is a ridiculously fun and easy gun to shoot.

 

[Tahr]

I use my .223 on roe when I can.
I use nosler 60gr ballistic tips. They pack a fair punch.
I just try to be careful to not hit major bones such as shoulder/spine or it makes a big hole and damages a lot of meat.
although no more damage than most other calibre's.

The only reason I don't use it all the time is because I usually take my .308 so I can shoot a red if the opportunity arises.

The 77TMK flattens Reds no problem, but maybe you have a minimum caliber restriction?

 

[Jay Ell Gee]

We shot one in the chest with a 25-06 this year, no blood trail. I think your issue, and mine, was shot placement, and not bullet used.

If we are talking frontal shots square in the chest, I 100% agree. I wouldn't expect much blood loss from those shots either. Prefer the base of the neck to try and turn them off where they stand.

I actually hit a large 160lb doe square in the chest a few years back with a 180gr Barnes TTSX from a 35 Whelen and there was not a drop of blood to be found. Projectile was recovered right under the skin... in the rear ham. Made the whole trip through.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

If we are talking frontal shots square in the chest, I 100% agree. I wouldn't expect much blood loss from those shots either. Prefer the base of the neck to try and turn them off where they stand.

I actually hit a large 160lb doe square in the chest a few years back with a 180gr Barnes TTSX from a 35 Whelen and there was not a drop of blood to be found. Projectile was recovered right under the skin... in the rear ham. Made the whole trip through.

Standing there looking at us. I had no doubt the bullet would do the job. But I would have my daughter aim a bit higher next time.

 

[Jay Ell Gee]

Standing there looking at us. I had no doubt the bullet would do the job. But I would have my daughter aim a bit higher next time.

Tell her congratulations! That's a very good shot for any hunter.