.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Bluumoon]

Interesting. I popped over to this thread to see if there's been much talk about AMMO Inc stuff. I was looking at the 75gr OTBT and wondering if it's worth trying as practice stuff. Im shooting the AAC 77gr OTM and 73gr ELD-M right around 1.5" for 10rd groups and was hoping to find something that gets me closer to an inch flat.

Kinda unfortunate to hear about the Winchester buy out, I've had pretty terrible luck with Winchester ammo and refuse to shoot any white box stuff anymore.

Fairly certain AMMO inc is who Bone Frog was contracting w to load their stuff. The Bone Frog 77 otm provided the smallest 10 and 20 round groups I’ve seen from my Tikka to date. The BF TMK was < 1.5” for 2O rounds. Tried the BF 62 gr as well, it was mostly under 1.5”
w some stragglers out around 2.5”.

 

[Moccasin]

What you will most likely see, without actually cutting them open, is an increase in the amount of pigs that drop right away or within sight, rather than running off to die.

The other thing you will see is the ability to get back on target quicker for shots at other pigs if you run into a sounder.

This mirrors my experience with 77 TMKs on pigs out of a suppressed 223. Thoracic cavity exit wounds 2-2.5” and typically running <50 yards before piling up.

Most noticeable is you can hear the hits and transition more quickly. In a typical setup with a sounder feeding through an ag field with 50-75 yds until cover, 2-3 typically fall in the field or just into the woodline.

 

[Hunt_Jefferson]

Looking for opinions on factory loaded lead free .223 options for California blacktail or blacktail/mule hybrid. Range under 100 yards is most likely. I’m not seeing much for choices besides:

Copper Creek 62gr TTSX
Black Hills 62gr TSX
Lehigh Defense 62gr Controlled Chaos
Lehigh Defense 62gr Maximum Expansion

A few more options exist at 55gr (Barnes TTSX, Winchester, etc) but I assume it’s best to go with the heavier grain in .223?

Undecided on rifle but likely the Tikka compact 20” barrel (11 yo’s rifle).

 

[Ajsomp]

Looking for opinions on factory loaded lead free .223 options for California blacktail or blacktail/mule hybrid. Range under 100 yards is most likely. I’m not seeing much for choices besides:

Copper Creek 62gr TTSX
Black Hills 62gr TSX
Lehigh Defense 62gr Controlled Chaos
Lehigh Defense 62gr Maximum Expansion

A few more options exist at 55gr (Barnes TTSX, Winchester, etc) but I assume it’s best to go with the heavier grain in .223?

Undecided on rifle but likely the Tikka compact 20” barrel (11 yo’s rifle).

the 62 grain controlled chaos bullet has done great for me out of an AR on deer, hogs, and coyotes. Are you looking at factory loads only?

 

[Nine Banger]

Copper is not required here but I was sucked in by the marketing when I first starting hunting around 20 years ago.

I used the 62gr TTSX and 80gr TTSX (243).

The 80s got it done but the 62gr didn't.

I recall one shot where I had 2 other hunters positioned around my place and heard them both shoot so I plugged a doe in a group I was watching at around 15 yards. I saw impact and watched her walk off. I picked up a shooter marble sized chunk of lung on the ground behind her, looked for a half our or so for blood and did not recover with 3 sets of eyes. Went back the next day to grid search and no dice either.

 

[Hunt_Jefferson]

the 62 grain controlled chaos bullet has done great for me out of an AR on deer, hogs, and coyotes. Are you looking at factory loads only?

Yes, factory loads only. Reloading isn’t in the cards for now.

 

[Poe]

BC and AB allow .22 cal centerfires.

Sask does aswell

 

[Poe]

Yes, sorry I wasn't more specific about this: I've killed them with everything from a 22LR to a 375 H&H and all the different types of bullets. I know those 22s work because I've used them on hogs, and still do on occasion. But I normally don't have the time to cut these pigs open, and I'm probably not smart enough to know what I'd be looking at anyways. All that to say, I understand the differences between a fragmenting lead core and an expanding mono within the same caliber, but not within different calibers. I'm curious to know the wound channel differences between a .308 130 TTSX and a .224 77 tmk at the higher velocities.

I don’t have the same experience as some of the others here but I have shot monos for deer and one moose in 300 win 257 weatherby and 243. In my experience if you hit them in the lungs with no major bones they typically don’t go down right away but with the ttsx I don’t think I have had anything travel over 30 yards. I had one doe shot through the lungs with a 100 gr tsx out of my 257. Showed no real signs of being hit and ran about 70 yards and was dead. Anytime I hit any major bones or neck shots nothing has travelled far at all and most dropped on the spot. I agree that on average the cup and core bullets put animals down faster but if you put a mono in the vitals and especially if you want to save as much meat as possible I have no issues using the Barnes bullets

 

[Thegman]

I don’t have the same experience as some of the others here but I have shot monos for deer and one moose in 300 win 257 weatherby and 243. In my experience if you hit them in the lungs with no major bones they typically don’t go down right away but with the ttsx I don’t think I have had anything travel over 30 yards. I had one doe shot through the lungs with a 100 gr tsx out of my 257. Showed no real signs of being hit and ran about 70 yards and was dead. Anytime I hit any major bones or neck shots nothing has travelled far at all and most dropped on the spot. I agree that on average the cup and core bullets put animals down faster but if you put a mono in the vitals and especially if you want to save as much meat as possible I have no issues using the Barnes bullets

Mirrors my experience as well. More bullets work than don't. Maybe they don't work quite the same, but they do work.

 

[Poe]

Mirrors my experience as well. More bullets work than don't. Maybe they don't work quite the same, but they do work.

My only concern with the Barnes bullets was with a poorly placed shot. I was lucky enough to never have to deal with it but I do agree with others that I think the wider wound channel of the cup and core bullets could be a definite benefit if you hit a animal to far back or at lower impact speeds. With well placed shots at higher impact velocities I had no issues

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Looking for opinions on factory loaded lead free .223 options for California blacktail or blacktail/mule hybrid. Range under 100 yards is most likely. I’m not seeing much for choices besides:

Copper Creek 62gr TTSX
Black Hills 62gr TSX
Lehigh Defense 62gr Controlled Chaos
Lehigh Defense 62gr Maximum Expansion

A few more options exist at 55gr (Barnes TTSX, Winchester, etc) but I assume it’s best to go with the heavier grain in .223?

Undecided on rifle but likely the Tikka compact 20” barrel (11 yo’s rifle).

2023 Upgraded 223 79 gr ELITE Ammo: Enhanced Performance

Discover the new 223 79 gr ELITE ammo! Featuring a sleek design for higher ballistic coefficients and improved performance for hunting and tactical use.

drtammo.com

.223 62 Grain Frangible Round for Self Defense & Hunting

Discover the .223 62 grain frangible round, perfect for deer hunting and self-defense. Safe, accurate, and effective up to 350 yards.

drtammo.com

 

[KHntr]

Looking for opinions on factory loaded lead free .223 options for California blacktail or blacktail/mule hybrid. Range under 100 yards is most likely. I’m not seeing much for choices besides:

Copper Creek 62gr TTSX
Black Hills 62gr TSX
Lehigh Defense 62gr Controlled Chaos
Lehigh Defense 62gr Maximum Expansion

A few more options exist at 55gr (Barnes TTSX, Winchester, etc) but I assume it’s best to go with the heavier grain in .223?

Undecided on rifle but likely the Tikka compact 20” barrel (11 yo’s rifle).

In a Barnes go lighter and push it faster. 50 or 55’s over the 62. As much velocity as you can get will help.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Phantom tink 77 TMK
24” tikka
10 shot
2957
ES10.5
SD 4.9

 

[h2so4]

Looking for opinions on factory loaded lead free .223 options for California blacktail or blacktail/mule hybrid. Range under 100 yards is most likely. I’m not seeing much for choices besides:

Copper Creek 62gr TTSX
Black Hills 62gr TSX
Lehigh Defense 62gr Controlled Chaos
Lehigh Defense 62gr Maximum Expansion

A few more options exist at 55gr (Barnes TTSX, Winchester, etc) but I assume it’s best to go with the heavier grain in .223?

Undecided on rifle but likely the Tikka compact 20” barrel (11 yo’s rifle).

One additional option would be the Black Hills 62gr Dual Performance. It’s the controlled chaos bullet, at 3k fps.

 

[h2so4]

Got some speeds from a variety of loads this weekend. Your mileage may vary, hope this is useful.

Speeds 17” tikka

Black Hills 77gr TMK - 2735

Black Hills 77gr otm - 2732

Bone Frog 77gr TMK- 2684

Bone Frog 77gr otm- 2644

Super Vel 77gr otm- 2687

Older AAC 77gr otm - 2756

 

[JackButler]

A couple of provinces have 243 cal minimum’s and one has a 270 min I think. No rimfires for big game.

As to whether a 22 cf versus a 243 is a “crime” or not, I prefer to make my own decisions based on my own experiences.

While I do get what you’re saying, if everyone made their own decisions regarding game laws, we’d be in trouble. Maybe I’ll make my own decisions and start the season a few days early, or use a suppressor even though it’s not legal where I hunt.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

While I do get what you’re saying, if everyone made their own decisions regarding game laws, we’d be in trouble. Maybe I’ll make my own decisions and start the season a few days early, or use a suppressor even though it’s not legal where I hunt.

Not exactly equal comparisons there. Hunting before season will more likely impact others and the public resource. The other two, not so much.

There are plenty of examples of silly/outdated/not-necessarily-based-on-sound-reason-or-science laws, such as caliber restrictions. It's illegal in Florida for unmarried women to skydive on Sundays. In New Jersey it's illegal for men to knit during fishing season. In Washington, it's illegal to harass, harm or kill Bigfoot.

Wonder how much time I'd do if I shot a samsquanch in WA with my .223...technically not a big game animal, so probably just the one charge.

 

[Castle Rock]

So what bullet for a ‘sqatch

 

[The Guide]

So what bullet for a ‘sqatch

Either the Extremely Low Data - Murder bullet or the Total Monster Killer would work unless you are in California.

Jay

 

[Castle Rock]

I’m a long way from California, fully leaded here