.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Poe]

Yes, sorry I wasn't more specific about this: I've killed them with everything from a 22LR to a 375 H&H and all the different types of bullets. I know those 22s work because I've used them on hogs, and still do on occasion. But I normally don't have the time to cut these pigs open, and I'm probably not smart enough to know what I'd be looking at anyways. All that to say, I understand the differences between a fragmenting lead core and an expanding mono within the same caliber, but not within different calibers. I'm curious to know the wound channel differences between a .308 130 TTSX and a .224 77 tmk at the higher velocities.

I don’t have the same experience as some of the others here but I have shot monos for deer and one moose in 300 win 257 weatherby and 243. In my experience if you hit them in the lungs with no major bones they typically don’t go down right away but with the ttsx I don’t think I have had anything travel over 30 yards. I had one doe shot through the lungs with a 100 gr tsx out of my 257. Showed no real signs of being hit and ran about 70 yards and was dead. Anytime I hit any major bones or neck shots nothing has travelled far at all and most dropped on the spot. I agree that on average the cup and core bullets put animals down faster but if you put a mono in the vitals and especially if you want to save as much meat as possible I have no issues using the Barnes bullets

 

[Thegman]

I don’t have the same experience as some of the others here but I have shot monos for deer and one moose in 300 win 257 weatherby and 243. In my experience if you hit them in the lungs with no major bones they typically don’t go down right away but with the ttsx I don’t think I have had anything travel over 30 yards. I had one doe shot through the lungs with a 100 gr tsx out of my 257. Showed no real signs of being hit and ran about 70 yards and was dead. Anytime I hit any major bones or neck shots nothing has travelled far at all and most dropped on the spot. I agree that on average the cup and core bullets put animals down faster but if you put a mono in the vitals and especially if you want to save as much meat as possible I have no issues using the Barnes bullets

Mirrors my experience as well. More bullets work than don't. Maybe they don't work quite the same, but they do work.

 

[Poe]

Mirrors my experience as well. More bullets work than don't. Maybe they don't work quite the same, but they do work.

My only concern with the Barnes bullets was with a poorly placed shot. I was lucky enough to never have to deal with it but I do agree with others that I think the wider wound channel of the cup and core bullets could be a definite benefit if you hit a animal to far back or at lower impact speeds. With well placed shots at higher impact velocities I had no issues

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Looking for opinions on factory loaded lead free .223 options for California blacktail or blacktail/mule hybrid. Range under 100 yards is most likely. I’m not seeing much for choices besides:

Copper Creek 62gr TTSX
Black Hills 62gr TSX
Lehigh Defense 62gr Controlled Chaos
Lehigh Defense 62gr Maximum Expansion

A few more options exist at 55gr (Barnes TTSX, Winchester, etc) but I assume it’s best to go with the heavier grain in .223?

Undecided on rifle but likely the Tikka compact 20” barrel (11 yo’s rifle).

.223 55gr Terminal Shock Ammo (20 Rounds)

Discover the .223 55gr Terminal Shock round—high velocity, accurate, and lethal for hunting or self-defense. For Twist rates 1:7 1:8 1:9 -- We have the right cartridge for your application.

drtammo.com

.223 62 Grain Frangible Round for Self Defense & Hunting

Discover the .223 62 grain frangible round, perfect for deer hunting and self-defense. Safe, accurate, and effective up to 350 yards.

drtammo.com

 

[KHntr]

Looking for opinions on factory loaded lead free .223 options for California blacktail or blacktail/mule hybrid. Range under 100 yards is most likely. I’m not seeing much for choices besides:

Copper Creek 62gr TTSX
Black Hills 62gr TSX
Lehigh Defense 62gr Controlled Chaos
Lehigh Defense 62gr Maximum Expansion

A few more options exist at 55gr (Barnes TTSX, Winchester, etc) but I assume it’s best to go with the heavier grain in .223?

Undecided on rifle but likely the Tikka compact 20” barrel (11 yo’s rifle).

In a Barnes go lighter and push it faster. 50 or 55’s over the 62. As much velocity as you can get will help.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Phantom tink 77 TMK
24” tikka
10 shot
2957
ES10.5
SD 4.9

 

[h2so4]

Looking for opinions on factory loaded lead free .223 options for California blacktail or blacktail/mule hybrid. Range under 100 yards is most likely. I’m not seeing much for choices besides:

Copper Creek 62gr TTSX
Black Hills 62gr TSX
Lehigh Defense 62gr Controlled Chaos
Lehigh Defense 62gr Maximum Expansion

A few more options exist at 55gr (Barnes TTSX, Winchester, etc) but I assume it’s best to go with the heavier grain in .223?

Undecided on rifle but likely the Tikka compact 20” barrel (11 yo’s rifle).

One additional option would be the Black Hills 62gr Dual Performance. It’s the controlled chaos bullet, at 3k fps.

 

[h2so4]

Got some speeds from a variety of loads this weekend. Your mileage may vary, hope this is useful.

Speeds 17” tikka

Black Hills 77gr TMK - 2735

Black Hills 77gr otm - 2732

Bone Frog 77gr TMK- 2684

Bone Frog 77gr otm- 2644

Super Vel 77gr otm- 2687

Older AAC 77gr otm - 2756

 

[JackButler]

A couple of provinces have 243 cal minimum’s and one has a 270 min I think. No rimfires for big game.

As to whether a 22 cf versus a 243 is a “crime” or not, I prefer to make my own decisions based on my own experiences.

While I do get what you’re saying, if everyone made their own decisions regarding game laws, we’d be in trouble. Maybe I’ll make my own decisions and start the season a few days early, or use a suppressor even though it’s not legal where I hunt.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

While I do get what you’re saying, if everyone made their own decisions regarding game laws, we’d be in trouble. Maybe I’ll make my own decisions and start the season a few days early, or use a suppressor even though it’s not legal where I hunt.

Not exactly equal comparisons there. Hunting before season will more likely impact others and the public resource. The other two, not so much.

There are plenty of examples of silly/outdated/not-necessarily-based-on-sound-reason-or-science laws, such as caliber restrictions. It's illegal in Florida for unmarried women to skydive on Sundays. In New Jersey it's illegal for men to knit during fishing season. In Washington, it's illegal to harass, harm or kill Bigfoot.

Wonder how much time I'd do if I shot a samsquanch in WA with my .223...technically not a big game animal, so probably just the one charge.

 

[Castle Rock]

So what bullet for a ‘sqatch

 

[The Guide]

So what bullet for a ‘sqatch

Either the Extremely Low Data - Murder bullet or the Total Monster Killer would work unless you are in California.

Jay

 

[Castle Rock]

I’m a long way from California, fully leaded here

 

[mt terry d]

While I do get what you’re saying, if everyone made their own decisions regarding game laws, we’d be in trouble.

What trouble would it cause if everyone decided for themselves which cartridge to use?

 

[atmat]

What trouble would it cause if everyone decided for themselves which cartridge to use?

To play devil’s advocate: folks could use 22LR and end up with lots of wounded animals.

I’m personally of the opinion that hunters should be extra careful to follow hunting regulations if for no other reason than to be above reproach with the anti-hunting groups.

 

[justinspicher]

To play devil’s advocate: folks could use 22LR and end up with lots of wounded animals.

I’m personally of the opinion that hunters should be extra careful to follow hunting regulations if for no other reason than to be above reproach with the anti-hunting groups.

Lots of folks wound animals every year with anything from trad bows to magnum cartridges. Caliber choice is not the only reason for this dilemma.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Not exactly equal comparisons there. Hunting before season will more likely impact others and the public resource. The other two, not so much.

There are plenty of examples of silly/outdated/not-necessarily-based-on-sound-reason-or-science laws, such as caliber restrictions. It's illegal in Florida for unmarried women to skydive on Sundays. In New Jersey it's illegal for men to knit during fishing season. In Washington, it's illegal to harass, harm or kill Bigfoot.

Wonder how much time I'd do if I shot a samsquanch in WA with my .223...technically not a big game animal, so probably just the one charge.

In Washington we also have our law making commissioners actively committing felonies and conspiring against sportsmen in collaboration with anti-hunting groups too, so there's that.

 

[roosiebull]

If you get your nads ripped off, does that make you trans?

1st day of womanhood post would, and maybe bud light, no nads would be a cool but tragic hunting story

 

[roosiebull]

Lots of folks wound animals every year with anything from trad bows to magnum cartridges. Caliber choice is not the only reason for this dilemma.

Caliber choice never is, bullet choice could be a contributing factor, but wounding animals is almost always a failure behind the recoil pad or arrow.

I guess shooting a Cape buffalo with a 22 short could be a way caliber choice leading to a wounded critter, but within reason, it almost has to be a bad decision/execution by the hunter, with any weapon

People like blaming everything but themselves, but any wounded animal I have seen aside from one catastrophic Broadhead failure have been the human rather than weapon.

There was a time in my life when I was shooting a 60# bow that was completely out of tune, light arrows and cheap broadheads and I was still hell on elk, zero equipment related drama. I would just sight in with broadheads mid summer and practice with them, and that was my level of tuning… I didn’t know better, and neither did the elk.

Blaming equipment for hunter error has been happening forever, i think this thread showcases that well. A little tiny bullet not moving all that fast will reliably wreck large animals

 

[atmat]

Lots of folks wound animals every year with anything from trad bows to magnum cartridges. Caliber choice is not the only reason for this dilemma.

I didn’t say the law is well written as is. The requestor asked for an example of how no restriction could hurt; I gave an example.

Again, I hunt with a 223 where allotted — so I’m not taking a stance against it. I’m just cautioning that we shouldn’t be advertising or promoting the breaking of laws (which is in line with the Rokslide rules as well).