.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Formidilosus]

Less penetration than a tmk or eld?

In general, so far. 10’ish inches of penetration if it hits major bone at high impact velocities.

 

[Big_wals]

Yeah, they definitely wouldn’t be my first choice for an elk bullet. They work all right for hogs, and the price is hard to beat. Might try one on a deer this fall.

In general, so far. 10’ish inches of penetration if it hits major bone at high impact velocities.

Have you seen anything with them at lower velocities yet?

 

[Formidilosus]

Yeah, they definitely wouldn’t be my first choice for an elk bullet. They work all right for hogs, and the price is hard to beat. Might try one on a deer this fall.

Shrug. An elk isn’t any different to get to the lungs than bigger sized pigs. I wouldn’t pick them as a first choice for elk, but I wouldn’t have an issue personally with them either.

Have you seen anything with them at lower velocities yet?

Nothing below normal impacts. I would be relatively confident down to 1,800’ish FPS for consistent upset.

 

[Big_wals]

Shrug. An elk isn’t any different to get to the lungs than bigger sized pigs. I wouldn’t pick them as a first choice for elk, but I wouldn’t have an issue personally with them either.

Oh I’m sure they would work, just wouldn’t be my choice when there’s better bullets out there. If it was all I had access to, I’d use em.

 

[bigeyedfish]

My kids will be using them during Missouri deer season this year. I probably will too just to mix things up. I like being able to practice with the same rounds we'll hunt with.

 

[S-3 ranch]

you guys are going to love this

“”
PROPOSAL 11
5 AAC 92.085. Unlawful methods of taking big game; exceptions.
Establish a minimum caliber rifle to be used to harvest moose in Unit 18 as follows:
Restrict the use of centerfire and rimfire rifles .224 caliber and smaller and require a minimum of
.243 or 6 mm caliber centerfire rifles for the harvest of moose in Unit 18.
What is the issue you would like the board to address and why? Many moose are killed every
year and not harvested as a result of a lack of regulation requiring a minimum caliber rifle to be
allowed for harvest of moose in Unit 18. Moose and the number of moose killed need to be
accurately communicated, especially in areas that close upon a predetermined quota.
Unfortunately, moose are shot with rifles and ammo that are inadequate to kill them.
Moose are one of the largest North American big game species. A common rifle to hunt moose in
Unit 18 is the .223 Remington. It is true that centerfire 22 caliber rifles like the .223 and even
smaller can effectively kill moose depending on shot placement. Unfortunately, with the high
number of variables, perfect shot placement is not a guarantee every time a trigger is pulled, and
often can end in a dead and unharvested moose. Because of this, the true number of moose killed
is higher than what is reported at harvest, thus negatively impacting the number of moose that can
be harvested for subsistence purposes. In addition, this is an ethical problem too. Many times, if a
moose is shot with a .223 or smaller rifle, the moose will not fall where it was shot, but rather run
off. It is not unusual to harvest moose that have been previously shot with .223 caliber rifles. These
moose often cannot be harvested, since large portions are infected and abscessed. Another common
situation is moose shot in the jaw by hunters attempting head shots with .223. Moose hit in the jaw
by smaller caliber centerfire rifles can appear unharmed leaving the hunter to think they simply
missed, when in reality, the moose travels a great distance shot in the jaw, left to starve, unable to
chew its food. Finally, one of the most common uses of the .223 and other centerfire 22 caliber
rifles and smaller in North America is predator/varmint hunting. As a result, a majority of the
ammo loaded commercially for .223 and sold in Unit 18 use hollow point or other fragmenting
ballistic tip bullets, none of which are made for the deep bone breaking penetration needed to
effectively kill moose. Rather, ballistic tip and hollow point bullets so commonly loaded for the
.223 are designed to penetrate and explode inside the body of the coyote, fox or other
predator/varmint targeted. Frequently, when these types of bullets are used for big game, especially
moose, the targeted animal is maimed by a bullet that comes apart before getting adequate
penetration to effectively kill the moose.


Did this pass or get postponed?

 

[3one5]

I'm always late to the party. Spent some time up in the San Juans and when I finally took a minute to look at my phone I see all the in stock notifications that are all already out of stock.

 

[E.Shell]

Well...I've finally finished this here entire thread. Holy cow, what a huge amount of information!

I'm surprised at the ability of the 77 TMKs to penetrate relatively large bone and still provide enough penetration and wound channel to effect clean kills. I'm not at all surprised at the overall lethality of the smaller cartridges, having used a .22-250 to take a large number of eastern whitetails. Most shots were selected to be broadside and the bullet carefully placed, but there have been some quartering on, dead on and head shots taken as well. I've taken deer with a wide variety of cartridges from .22 Hornet to 6.5-300Wby to .35Whelen, .50 muzzleloader and 12/20 gauge slugs and have seen similar results with similar hits no matter what the cartridge.

I had never really considered how the heavier bullets that almost always produced an exit wound and blood trail did so by reducing ("controlling") expansion and trauma. Now I'm seeing it as a tradeoff, that yes, it should leave a trail, but yes, you'll probably want one. I've always counted on a heart shot deer to run 50 yards, whatever I shot it with and with a simple broadside heart shot almost anything goes on through a whitetail, including a sharp stick.

I think the only time I ever got a deer I would have lost to a smaller rifle was when I shot at one running by with the .35 Whelen. It hit and penetrated a small (4") tree in front of the deer that I didn't see when the shot broke. Used a Hornady 200 grain spire point. The entry and exit wounds both were around 3/4" and it broke both (front ;-) ) shoulders.

I bought a Ruger American Ranch rifle (5.56 16-1/2" 1:8") a while back, mainly due to it taking Stanag mags like my ARs, being threaded so it can host one of my suppressors and almost unused at $400. I also have a few ARs with varying levels of precision, but even the carbine-length guns run heavier for similar capability as the bolt guns.

I'm very familiar with the Tikka .308 rifles and never really thought of the .223s as deer rifles, but now I want one. Trying to keep the weight down, need threads, stainless and synthetic stock... I keep looking at the .22-250, but I have one already, albeit a very slow twist rate and useless for the heavy bullets I'd like to use.

Back to the .223s, I did find a local guy selling some Speer LE .223 64gr GDSPs for a very reasonable price and got 280 of them. I'm going to zero my working guns for that load until I can get some 77 TMKs to load up. I've got all the second choice powders (H4350, Varget, etc.) on hand, but no TAC, 8208 or similar.

 

[MEdude]

Second shot hit guts

Where do you find pigs with packages of premade sausage?????

 

[PNWGATOR]

Can NOT wait to see ‘24 experiences!

 

[Big_wals]

View attachment 753097

Where do you find pigs with packages of premade sausage?????

Lol. Next time I’ll save ya some.

 

[MEdude]

Has anyone worked up a load for the 80 grain ELDX and planning to use them this year?

 

[FB Trout]

Has anyone worked up a load for the 80 grain ELDX and planning to use them this year?

I have a load worked up with a Tikka .223 18.5" barrel with the 80 ELDX,
Starline brass, CCI 450 primer, 24.5 gr Varget and COAL ~2.42" (that's off the top of my head on the COAL, may be a bit longer, but I am using Ascension Industries mags that allow loading out to that length). The load is crunchy. I have the same load worked up for 80 ELDM as well, and they shoot to a very similar POA. I am planning on using them on elk and deer this year.

 

[AKPH]

guys.... if the TMK is a discreet killer !

A mature bull Elk is kind of out of his league under perfect conditions.... or no other rifle around.... then its not even legal !!!!

 

[sierracharlie338]

 

[DB29]

I have a load worked up with a Tikka .223 18.5" barrel with the 80 ELDX,
Starline brass, CCI 450 primer, 24.5 gr Varget and COAL ~2.42" (that's off the top of my head on the COAL, may be a bit longer, but I am using Ascension Industries mags that allow loading out to that length). The load is crunchy. I have the same load worked up for 80 ELDM as well, and they shoot to a very similar POA. I am planning on using them on elk and deer this year.

At what COAL do you get into the lands? Mine seems to max out at 2.41”.

 

[tedmroyer]

I have always wondered about this.

Decades ago, I had a rifle scope fail when checking zero as soon as we got to the hunt. We were all shooting 30-06s and 300 win mags but another hunter lent me his backup 222 and said is would work fine if I shoot well placed shots. With this beautiful but puny little rifle, I shot a walking deer through the lungs and he ran about 50 yards and fell over dead. No exit wound, no bullet or bullet pieces found, but lungs on this animal were vaporized. But whenever I have told this story, I have been immeditately told it was an unethical shot and that I was just very lucky.

I have a 6.5 Grendel in the Howa mini action that loves the 123 gr ELD-M Hornady BLACK. So now the question: Within the range that is above say 1900 ft per second impact velocity, do you guys think I can ethically use (assuming of course, well placed shots) with this on Elk?

I apologize for asking this after 400 pages of this forum, but I don't shoot a lot of big animals.

 

[atmat]

I have always wondered about this.

Decades ago, I had a rifle scope fail when checking zero as soon as we got to the hunt. We were all shooting 30-06s and 300 win mags but another hunter lent me his backup 222 and said is would work fine if I shoot well placed shots. With this beautiful but puny little rifle, I shot a walking deer through the lungs and he ran about 50 yards and fell over dead. No exit wound, no bullet or bullet pieces found, but lungs on this animal were vaporized. But whenever I have told this story, I have been immeditately told it was an unethical shot and that I was just very lucky.

I have a 6.5 Grendel in the Howa mini action that loves the 123 gr ELD-M Hornady BLACK. So now the question: Within the range that is above say 1900 ft per second impact velocity, do you guys think I can ethically use (assuming of course, well placed shots) with this on Elk?

I apologize for asking this after 400 pages of this forum, but I don't shoot a lot of big animals.

Yes.

 

[Ozarkansas]

I have always wondered about this.

Decades ago, I had a rifle scope fail when checking zero as soon as we got to the hunt. We were all shooting 30-06s and 300 win mags but another hunter lent me his backup 222 and said is would work fine if I shoot well placed shots. With this beautiful but puny little rifle, I shot a walking deer through the lungs and he ran about 50 yards and fell over dead. No exit wound, no bullet or bullet pieces found, but lungs on this animal were vaporized. But whenever I have told this story, I have been immeditately told it was an unethical shot and that I was just very lucky.

I have a 6.5 Grendel in the Howa mini action that loves the 123 gr ELD-M Hornady BLACK. So now the question: Within the range that is above say 1900 ft per second impact velocity, do you guys think I can ethically use (assuming of course, well placed shots) with this on Elk?

I apologize for asking this after 400 pages of this forum, but I don't shoot a lot of big animals.

I have no firsthand experience on elk but quite a few guys on the 65grendel forum have used it on elk. Having seen what it will do to deer I’d have no concerns shooting an elk with one within appropriate range

 

[HandgunHTR]

I have a 6.5 Grendel in the Howa mini action that loves the 123 gr ELD-M Hornady BLACK. So now the question: Within the range that is above say 1900 ft per second impact velocity, do you guys think I can ethically use (assuming of course, well placed shots) with this on Elk?

I have taken multiple Axis deer and watched an Eland fall to the Grendel. Yes it will kill an elk.