.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[grappling_hook]

Deep penetration, narrow wound channel. It kills fine however bullets such as TSX’s and on the other side- varmint bullets are what have given .22’s the “marginal” label. The 77gr TMK, 75 and 88gr ELD-M, etc produce exceptionally good wound channels.

Do you have any observations to share about wound channels from bullets such as 62gr Nosler Varmageddon or 60gr Vmax on mid/large game?

 

[Formidilosus]

Do you have any observations to share about wound channels from bullets such as 62gr Nosler Varmageddon or 60gr Vmax on mid/large game?

They do fine generally- specifically the 60gr VMAX. They average between 10-12 inches of penetration, almost never exiting. They are a bit shallow in wounds for my preference, but certainly kill fine, and sometimes dramatically.

 

[Shraggs]

What knife is that?

I believe that is a bark river, model “wolf river”.

Awesome skinner

 

[Fire power]

I've been hunting deer with a 223 for the last few years using anything from bulk 55 grain soft points to 75 grain Hornady HPBT on deer ranging in size from little great dane sized deer, mature does, and a pretty big Kansas buck that walked out the last day of rifle season. The only one that ran went 30 yards with a hole in its heart, it was a chest shot on a small doe staring at me from 150 yards with a bulk 55 grain soft point. What I've found, at least on Kansas deer in early December is a 223 doesn't seem to make them as jumpy as a 30-06 does. On multiple occasions I've shot one deer, watched it drop, then shoot the one next to it a few seconds later. Where as with my larger center fires, I shoot one, the others kick it in to high gear and are gone immediately.

 

[Zerk]

People shoot them with bows.
But what is the point, other than to say you did it? IMO I want to shoot the biggest I can shoot well. If you have health issues, and can only shoot a smaller gun, I get it.

Until recently the guns I accuired from youth didn't even have recoil pads. Add a recoil pad and bigger guns really shoot nice.

I do get the idea that it gives you a better chance to stay on target. I understand velocity is a key component to energy.

I don't disagree they will do it, But I have to think there are calibers below the really big ones, that would have more to offer.

I was listening to podcast about 22 creedmoor going over its energy at various points. One thing they didn't like about 223 was the bullets available.

As for the heart picture, you don't think that is anemic? A large calibler would have done more damage?
I get we are in an era of great bullet exansion, and not what it was 20 years ago.

 

[Deywalker]

People shoot them with bows.
But what is the point, other than to say you did it? IMO I want to shoot the biggest I can shoot well. If you have health issues, and can only shoot a smaller gun, I get it.

Until recently the guns I accuired from youth didn't even have recoil pads. Add a recoil pad and bigger guns really shoot nice.

I do get the idea that it gives you a better chance to stay on target. I understand velocity is a key component to energy.

I don't disagree they will do it, But I have to think there are calibers below the really big ones, that would have more to offer.

I was listening to podcast about 22 creedmoor going over its energy at various points. One thing they didn't like about 223 was the bullets available.

As for the heart picture, you don't think that is anemic? A large calibler would have done more damage?
I get we are in an era of great bullet exansion, and not what it was 20 years ago.

This thread wasn't made to extol the virtues of bulk 55gr soft points. Have you read the whole thread?

 

[atmat]

People shoot them with bows.
But what is the point, other than to say you did it? IMO I want to shoot the biggest I can shoot well. If you have health issues, and can only shoot a smaller gun, I get it.

Until recently the guns I accuired from youth didn't even have recoil pads. Add a recoil pad and bigger guns really shoot nice.

I do get the idea that it gives you a better chance to stay on target. I understand velocity is a key component to energy.

I don't disagree they will do it, But I have to think there are calibers below the really big ones, that would have more to offer.

I was listening to podcast about 22 creedmoor going over its energy at various points. One thing they didn't like about 223 was the bullets available.

As for the heart picture, you don't think that is anemic? A large calibler would have done more damage?
I get we are in an era of great bullet exansion, and not what it was 20 years ago.

Did you honestly read all the posts? Or just jump to the end?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

At this point, denying the effectiveness of the 77 tmk out of a 223 is similar to being a flat earther or thinking birds aren't real. There is overwhelming evidence to those ambitious enough to simply read this thread.

 

[11Justin22]

This thread wasn't made to extol the virtues of bulk 55gr soft points. Have you read the whole thread?

Very obvious the answer to that is NO

 

[sickles107]

At this point, denying the effectiveness of the 77 tmk out of a 223 is similar to being a flat earther or thinking birds aren't real. There is overwhelming evidence to those ambitious enough to simply read this thread.

Hey! Keep birds out of this.

 

[mtnwrunner]

At this point, denying the effectiveness of the 77 tmk out of a 223 is similar to being a flat earther or thinking birds aren't real. There is overwhelming evidence to those ambitious enough to simply read this thread.

The earth is flat??
Damn.

Randy

 

[Pharmseller]

The earth is flat??
Damn.

Randy

Relax.

It used to be flat. Now it’s round.

But the roundness is temporary.




P

 

[mt100gr.]

People shoot them with bows.
But what is the point, other than to say you did it? IMO I want to shoot the biggest I can shoot well. If you have health issues, and can only shoot a smaller gun, I get it.

Until recently the guns I accuired from youth didn't even have recoil pads. Add a recoil pad and bigger guns really shoot nice.

I do get the idea that it gives you a better chance to stay on target. I understand velocity is a key component to energy.

I don't disagree they will do it, But I have to think there are calibers below the really big ones, that would have more to offer.

I was listening to podcast about 22 creedmoor going over its energy at various points. One thing they didn't like about 223 was the bullets available.

As for the heart picture, you don't think that is anemic? A large calibler would have done more damage?
I get we are in an era of great bullet exansion, and not what it was 20 years ago.

Go back and read all of the posts from page 1 up to this post of yours. Seriously.

 

[Zerk]

At this point, denying the effectiveness of the 77 tmk out of a 223 is similar to being a flat earther or thinking birds aren't real. There is overwhelming evidence to those ambitious enough to simply read this thread.

Not denying,but why? I understand keeping eye on target for follow up shot. I understand less recoil makes a better shot.

But is there not a bigger caliber suited that meets this?

Hunting open country where recovery is easy, probably less of issue.

Is our goal that a 10 year old can shoot a bear?

I am not saying you can't. But asking why?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I have not said other combo's, including larger calibers, are not effective - they are. and so is the 223 with the 77 tmk. you have repeatedly implied that the 223, and match bullets, are ineffective, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

And yeah, in some cases that's exactly what we're going for. my soon to be 7 year old will be pursuing deer with the 223 in just a few months. Finding a low-recoil, big game capable solution *DOUBLED* the number of years he'll get to hunt with me before he moves out on his own.

 

[Formidilosus]

I am not saying you can't. But asking why?

Read the thread you are posting on.

 

[Pharmseller]

I have not said other combo's, including larger calibers, are not effective - they are. and so is the 223 with the 77 tmk. you have repeatedly implied that the 223, and match bullets, are ineffective, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

And yeah, in some cases that's exactly what we're going for. my soon to be 7 year old will be pursuing deer with the 223 in just a few months. Finding a low-recoil, big game capable solution *DOUBLED* the number of years he'll get to hunt with me before he moves out on his own.

Excellent point.

My dad taught me to shoot the same way his dad taught him to shoot. As a result I have an intermittent flinch that I carry to this day.

I taught my boy a different way and he doesn’t have a flinch.



P

 

[Steve300xcw]

My dad taught me to shoot the same way his dad taught him to shoot. As a result I have an intermittent flinch that I carry to this day.

Yup. Dad got me a wood stock savage 300 winchester for my first hunting rifle....That is child abuse LOL!

 

[atmat]

I taught my boy a different way and he doesn’t have a flinch.

I can’t wait until my girls are old enough to shoot. They’ll learn on suppressed .22LRs and .223s. It’s a much better starting point than I had.

 

[Fatcamp]

To start with, I am a HUGE fan of 223/556, so naturally this thread appeals to me. Generally, I stick with an AR platform because that is what I know and I am familiar with it. With that being said, I recently picked up a Ruger American Ranch rifle in 556. For $600 it has been a stellar rifle so far. It shoots incredibly well, I am using Hornady Frontier 75gr HPBT 556 ammo. I went with a Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x32 with the LV Velocity reticle. Its a fantastic match. I put a Spartan javelin bipod up front and topped it off with my suppressor. So far I have shot paper and steel and a handful of prairie dogs in ranges from 35-380yds. No issues. I did take it apart and wipe it down, then put Loctite on all the bolts and torqued it back together. To my surprise it shot even better. I am not a huge fan of the plastic stock, particularly due to the tan color, but thats an easy fix. With a loaded ten round mag, scope and suppressor I am just under 10lbs.

Anyone else shoot one of these?

No, but we are exploring .223 options and this one caught our eye. Scheels has a used stainless American in .223 for $400 we are liking as well. 1:8.