.223, 6mm, and 6.5 failures on big game

[The Guide]

That's why I'll be using my AR on some does this season to test out the .223 match bullets thing myself before my kids old enough to hunt.

We are 3 for 3 one shot kills using the 223 with match bullets. 2 whitetail does with the 73eldm for my daughter and one mule deer doe with the 77tmk for my son. I was skeptical but after I killed an antelope at 400 yards with the 77tmk I figured the kids could do it and have less mental stress about recoil. They love to practice with the 223's we have in the summer so we use them in the fall now too.

Jay

 

[Bluefish]

Maybe not a failure, but not at all what was expected. Relatively new hunter, only 3 years into the journey and this was my first deer. This is the entry, 35 whelen (min 35 cal by regs), 150g cutting edge ER raptor, at 70 yards, 2800 mv. Left a huge blood trail, painted a tree red and went 75-100 yards. No exit, lungs were soup. I have since used the same bullet at much slower speeds with better/expected results. Not sure what happened on this one. Called CE and they said probably hit something before impact with the animal. Thoughts?

 

[Formidilosus]

Maybe not a failure, but not at all what was expected. Relatively new hunter, only 3 years into the journey and this was my first deer. This is the entry, 35 whelen (min 35 cal by regs), 150g cutting edge ER raptor, at 70 yards, 2800 mv. Left a huge blood trail, painted a tree red and went 75-100 yards. No exit, lungs were soup. I have since used the same bullet at much slower speeds with better/expected results. Not sure what happened on this one. Called CE and they said probably hit something before impact with the animal. Thoughts?

View attachment 783643

If that is the entrance, then yes most probably it hit something before impact. What would cause some question of that is how round the wound is, which could be caused by that bullet without the tip. Potentially.

 

[Bluefish]

If that is the entrance, then yes most probably it hit something before impact. What would cause some question of that is how round the wound is, which could be caused by that bullet without the tip. Potentially.

It is definitely the entrance. There was no exit. Probably about the size of a red bull can or maybe a soda can. Was about 110lb buck.

 

[Axlrod]

It is definitely the entrance. There was no exit. Probably about the size of a red bull can or maybe a soda can. Was about 110lb buck.

Do you have a pic of the bullet?

 

[KHntr]

I find it surprising that so many guys have looked at the interior pictures of that ribcage, and come to the conclusion that it’s bruising, instead of what it is much more likely to actually be - just a blood stain. Has anyone EVER seen bruising on the inside of deer rib bones?!?!?

I wasn’t there, but I would be absolutely shocked if that “bruise” couldn’t be wiped off with a damp cloth……..

 

[omicron1792]

Maybe not a failure, but not at all what was expected. Relatively new hunter, only 3 years into the journey and this was my first deer. This is the entry, 35 whelen (min 35 cal by regs), 150g cutting edge ER raptor, at 70 yards, 2800 mv. Left a huge blood trail, painted a tree red and went 75-100 yards. No exit, lungs were soup. I have since used the same bullet at much slower speeds with better/expected results. Not sure what happened on this one. Called CE and they said probably hit something before impact with the animal. Thoughts?

View attachment 783643

Raptors are terrible to tumble with any brush or limb impact. I love raptors but only with clear line of sight.

 

[omicron1792]

If that is the entrance, then yes most probably it hit something before impact. What would cause some question of that is how round the wound is, which could be caused by that bullet without the tip. Potentially.

Also don’t you think is possible form that the twist rate wasn’t right for that bullet? The ER raptor is a long mofo of a projectile and needs a modern fast twist barrel a 35 whelen might not have. That bullet was possibly tumbling from lack of twist.

 

[Bowfinn]

I find it surprising that so many guys have looked at the interior pictures of that ribcage, and come to the conclusion that it’s bruising, instead of what it is much more likely to actually be - just a blood stain. Has anyone EVER seen bruising on the inside of deer rib bones?!?!?

I wasn’t there, but I would be absolutely shocked if that “bruise” couldn’t be wiped off with a damp cloth……..

I’m one of the guys who thinks that it is bruising on the inside of the rib cage in the Picture.

First of all that’s a really clean thoracic cavity with only minimal blood left in the picture. My guess is that deer was washed out with a hose or 5 gallon buckets of water. Maybe @Harvey_NW can confirm this if he cares to. If it was washed out with water, why wasn’t it easily removed with all of the other blood that should be in the rib cage?

Second when you look at blood in the green circles notice how it runs along the muscle fibers of the intercostal muscles and not straight with gravity. Compare that to the blood in the blue circles that is mainly flowing straight down with gravity.

Third I believe the yellow circle to be a fracture of the rib, which is reasonable possibility after a GSW to the thorax. However, I admit the picture isn’t the best view for confirming rib fractures.

That’s why I believe it’s not just a surface blood stain, but I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again.

 

[KHntr]

For me, that looks like pooled blood or blood and water combo if you like, and the blue is slightly coagulated run off, as per your drawings.

Regardless, you don’t see bruised bone like on the inside of the ribs. That absolutely looks like blood (or blood and water) was pooled on it for a short time before the animal was hung.

My main point being however, that you can show something to a bunch of different people, and they can all see something different and come to different conclusions.