22 Creedmoor for Scimitar Oryx?

[JGRaider]

But I was asking you, since you spoke with authority.

I’m not arguing. I’ve never been to Africa. I honestly have no experience there.

That’s why I asked my question, which you don’t seem to want or have an answer for. And that’s okay to not know. But when you act like you know be prepared to be called out for it.

No, I don't know why there are cartridge minimums, no I didn't ever ask, and no I don't care. Since it's bothering you so much I suggest If you're really wanting to know then once again I'd suggest you ask them. I'm not responsible for the rules/laws of outfitters in another country. I love hunting there so I play by their rules. If a guy has a problem with it, then they need to stay home. Pretty simple.

 

[JGRaider]

I heard how tough African game was for years before I actually went. Over 5 different trips and 60+ plains game killed, I found out that good bullets put in the proper place killed them as efficiently as any other big game animal. Problem was, bullets that aren't put where they need to be, antelope like wildebeest, zebra, and gemsbok can go a very, very long way. That's where the African trackers (best in the world) come into play. Their tracking skills are downright amazing, even better than the trackers down in Sonora, MX.

 

[sturner88]

No, I don't know why there are cartridge minimums, no I didn't ever ask, and no I don't care. Since it's bothering you so much I suggest If you're really wanting to know then once again I'd suggest you ask them. I'm not responsible for the rules/laws of outfitters in another country. I love hunting there so I play by their rules. If a guy has a problem with it, then they need to stay home. Pretty simple.

I appreciate this viewpoint. Have a mule deer hunt in a few months. The guide STRONGLY suggests 270 win+…Even after what i’ve seen this weekend, i’ll be taking my 6.5 prc. I respect the outfitters wishes. Still gonna shoot eldm though.

 

[TxxAgg]

Thanks for the pics. Looks like you're hunting a fun place!

 

[atmat]

Since it's bothering you so much I suggest If you're really wanting to know then once again I'd suggest you ask them.

Local laws and regulations don’t bother me. I was mostly curious why you say the things you do. But some mysteries aren’t meant to be solved I guess.

 

[Big_wals]

Problem was, bullets that aren't put where they need to be, antelope like wildebeest, zebra, and gemsbok can go a very, very long way.

How exactly is that different than any North American game animal?

 

[JGRaider]

I appreciate this viewpoint. Have a mule deer hunt in a few months. The guide STRONGLY suggests 270 win+…Even after what i’ve seen this weekend, i’ll be taking my 6.5 prc. I respect the outfitters wishes. Still gonna shoot eldm though.

Congrats on the hunt. I've hunted mule deer every year since 1971, and guided about 150 other mule deer hunters up until about 5 years ago. The vast majority of hunters showed up over-gunned, over-scoped, and under-practiced.

My son has killed some really nice, big, mature mule deer bucks with his 6.5CM and 130 ELDM's out to 300 yards so you will absolutely have no problem with your rig whatsoever as you obviously know how to use it and where to place a bullet.

Whereabouts is your hunt?

 

[JGRaider]

How exactly is that different than any North American game animal?

Yeah, well, that's the point. African antelope aren't any tougher than any other NA game animal I've killed when the right bullet is put in the right place, in spite of the tales of how tough African game can be.

 

[sturner88]

Congrats on the hunt. I've hunted mule deer every year since 1971, and guided about 150 other mule deer hunters up until about 5 years ago. The vast majority of hunters showed up over-gunned, over-scoped, and under-practiced.

My son has killed some really nice, big, mature mule deer bucks with his 6.5CM and 130 ELDM's out to 300 yards so you will absolutely have no problem with your rig whatsoever as you obviously know how to use it and where to place a bullet.

Whereabouts is your hunt?

Saco Montana area.

 

[Big_wals]

The vast majority of hunters showed up over-gunned, over-scoped, and under-practiced.

Agree with you 100% on that one!

 

[JGRaider]

Saco Montana area.

Good luck!

 

[sturner88]

Oryx 1 is caped.

Entrance of 1st shot (heart)


recovered bullet or first shot


entrance of second shot (both lungs)




did not recover second bullet

Final synopsis:

Put the bullet where it needs to be, be able to manipulate the rifle for quick follow up shots and a heavy/fast .22 hornady match bullet is more than adequate for the game i’m afforded the opportunity hunt.

Thanks everyone for the insight, hopefully this little experiment will help someone make a decision on what they think is right for THEM someday.

Now, we can all get back to Namibia laws, lung capacity of antelope and cape buffalo shoulder bone density.

 

[kkp005]

Great thread!…. And this just proves that the right bullet, in the right spot, absolutely kills animals….. doesn’t matter if they are big or small.
I thermal hunt in Texas and kill literal trailer loads of pigs. Always hear folks talk about how “tough” they are and how you gotta shoot a big, heavy, tough bullet to penetrate big boars “shield”. I honestly haven’t seen any difference in hogs ability to live longer wether they weigh 90lbs or 315lbs.. shoot one through the heart, lungs , or dead nuts square in the shoulder and they die very quickly .
All of these “tuff” hogs were killed with 7.62x39s out of a 10.5” barrel shooting cheap Russian 124gr soft points….. I’d imagine an 80gr eldx or a 77gr tmk leaving a barrel at 3k fps will shooo nuff kill everything in NA….. or even those “tuff” African animals

 

[sturner88]

Great thread!…. And this just proves that the right bullet, in the right spot, absolutely kills animals….. doesn’t matter if they are big or small.
I thermal hunt in Texas and kill literal trailer loads of pigs. Always hear folks talk about how “tough” they are and how you gotta shoot a big, heavy, tough bullet to penetrate big boars “shield”. I honestly haven’t seen any difference in hogs ability to live longer wether they weigh 90lbs or 315lbs.. shoot one through the heart, lungs , or dead nuts square in the shoulder and they die very quickly .
All of these “tuff” hogs were killed with 7.62x39s out of a 10.5” barrel shooting cheap Russian 124gr soft points….. I’d imagine an 80gr eldx or a 77gr tmk leaving a barrel at 3k fps will shooo nuff kill everything in NA….. or even those “tuff” African animals

i’ll say this, to date, west texas hogs are the toughest animal on their feet, for me atleast. They haul ass instantly after being shot and if you don’t hit them up front in the vitals or in the neck, they’re gone like the wind. Not only that, they seem to NEVER stop moving before the shot.

In addition, I rarely get good blood trails because for whatever reason they seem to “seal up” after entrance/exit wounds. A man that can recover that man hogs in short order knows what he is doing.

 

[JGRaider]

i’ll say this, to date, west texas hogs are the toughest animal on their feet, for me atleast. They haul ass instantly after being shot and if you don’t hit them up front in the vitals or in the neck, they’re gone like the wind. Not only that, they seem to NEVER stop moving before the shot.

In addition, I rarely get good blood trails because for whatever reason they seem to “seal up” after entrance/exit wounds. A man that can recover that man hogs in short order knows what he is doing.

Couldn't agree more sturner, keep up the good work on the vermin!

 

[chamois]

Since 2005, with the single exceptions of 2020 and 21, I have been going either to RSA or to Namibia on a cull hunt every year, killing anywhere from 25 animals on a year that really nasty weather caught on us, up to 98. I have done all these trips accompanied by RC, my hunting buddy, and witnessed his kills on a similar amount of game as me.
To put it short, having taken different calibers from the 22-250 up to the 300 Wby., my very favourite are the said 22-250 with 77gr TMKs, the 6XC with 105gr VLDs, and the 6x5x57R with 130gr VLDs, in that order. I keep on testing things so these might change in the future.
Put a 2-3 or 4" hole in the lungs of the toughest oryx, blue wildebeest, zebra or whatever with one of the little guys, and all the theories about the African animals being magically tougher that the rest of the world´s will fall to pieces.
Someone mentioned he had killed 10 oryx, and being that a great experience, let me say I have shot 20, this year, just to put things in perspective.
And no, you should not take a PH judgement on these things as the word of God, at least not any PH´s, since many of them are simply not interested and pay no attention to these things at least at the level some of us do.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[BjornF16]

Since 2005, with the single exceptions of 2020 and 21, I have been going either to RSA or to Namibia on a cull hunt every year, killing anywhere from 25 animals on a year that really nasty weather caught on us, up to 98. I have done all these trips accompanied by RC, my hunting buddy, and witnessed his kills on a similar amount of game as me.
To put it short, having taken different calibers from the 22-250 up to the 300 Wby., my very favourite are the said 22-250 with 77gr TMKs, the 6XC with 105gr VLDs, and the 6x5x57R with 130gr VLDs, in that order. I keep on testing things so these might change in the future.
Put a 2-3 or 4" hole in the lungs of the toughest oryx, blue wildebeest, zebra or whatever with one of the little guys, and all the theories about the African animals being magically tougher that the rest of the world´s will fall to pieces.
Someone mentioned he had killed 10 oryx, and being that a great experience, let me say I have shot 20, this year, just to put things in perspective.
And no, you should not take a PH judgement on these things as the word of God, at least not any PH´s, since many of them are simply not interested and pay no attention to these things at least at the level some of us do.
Just my 2 cents.

Mic drop!

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Since 2005, with the single exceptions of 2020 and 21, I have been going either to RSA or to Namibia on a cull hunt every year, killing anywhere from 25 animals on a year that really nasty weather caught on us, up to 98. I have done all these trips accompanied by RC, my hunting buddy, and witnessed his kills on a similar amount of game as me.
To put it short, having taken different calibers from the 22-250 up to the 300 Wby., my very favourite are the said 22-250 with 77gr TMKs, the 6XC with 105gr VLDs, and the 6x5x57R with 130gr VLDs, in that order. I keep on testing things so these might change in the future.
Put a 2-3 or 4" hole in the lungs of the toughest oryx, blue wildebeest, zebra or whatever with one of the little guys, and all the theories about the African animals being magically tougher that the rest of the world´s will fall to pieces.
Someone mentioned he had killed 10 oryx, and being that a great experience, let me say I have shot 20, this year, just to put things in perspective.
And no, you should not take a PH judgement on these things as the word of God, at least not any PH´s, since many of them are simply not interested and pay no attention to these things at least at the level some of us do.
Just my 2 cents.

That’s a heck of a lot more than “2 cents”. Thanks for sharing real world experience!

 

[WRO]

Bow hunting wasn't legal in most African countries until the mid to late 80's.

Just because something isn't legal somewhere doesn't mean that it doesn't work, or shouldn't be done. It just means that the people who make the laws are confident in their ignorance.

A lot of states didn't allow the use of .22 caliber bullets for big game hunting either. Most of them have come around based on objective evidence, but there are still some holdouts that would rather cling to their ignorance, or cave to the ignorance of their hunters.

Outside of Rokslide, in the real world, there’s multiple dumfuks that would use solid ball ammo out of a 223 because they don’t know any better..

 

[S-3 ranch]

I wish formidilosus could get off his ego trip , but this seems very unlikely!
A heavy for caliber frangible .223 may be ok ( ?) for NA anatomy game @ marginal range shots , African & Asian game has a complete different anatomy ( aoudad are a African imported invasive specie sheep )
With the heart and lungs protected by heavy bone and more forward in the body ( nilgai heavy bone and 1+ inch thick dermal shield) & muscle, I believe his principle of using frangable / soft unbonded bullets have merited application in a heavier caliber to explode Both metal and bone fragments though the vitals of an African game animal @. 200 +/- meters
Example a unbonded 180gr 7mm has has laid out millions of food staple game since the late 19th century, 257weatherby in 20th century as a hot explosive PG caliber
A small caliber argument has merit in a culling operation where head and neck shots are taken. But shooting a African or Asian animal like a deer or elk will result in a gut shot
Kevin Robertson wrote a book for traveling sportsmen on African game
The Perfect Shot with diagrams and text on caliber choice and shot selection
For both trophy and meat hunting here are some photographic examples from the book