“The 22 Creedmoor Project”

[mxgsfmdpx]

Yea I haven’t shot anything with them. Just what I’ve heard from some coyote hunters who have tried them.

I killed two this morning with a 17 grain VMAX at 85 and 130ish yards. One to the neck and one to the lungs.

Coyotes in general can go a long ways when hit. Much further on average than big game animals across the board due to their willingness to survive and “fight” being quite high. That doesn’t mean they aren’t dead somewhere.

A 62 grain ELDVT out a 22CM at any velocity is going to kill coyotes very well.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

In the interest of putting this out there for any future deer hunter whos curious about the 22CM, here was my experience:

In 2024, I put away my 6.5CM and decided to use a 22CM for all of deer season. We have managed land permits, and as a group, kill about 200 deer a year.

My 22CM was responsible for 20 whitetail, a mix of does and bucks.

I used factory Hornady ELDM ammo. The 80gr variety.

Almost all 20 were bang flops. Yes, this is highly dependent on bullet placement. High shoulder, punching the blade, and deer just dont move.

All to say, everything about the 22CM is fun. Its flat, its low recoil, and its a deer hammer. I'll have a hard time wanting to poke a deer hide with anything other than this going forward.

Great info! What was the average impact velocity and impact location on the bang flop deer? Are your "high shoulder" shots potentially a bit higher than you think damaging spine with the wound channel?

I kept track of my 2024 kills with 80 ELDX and 22CM and saw an average of 45ish yards of "distance travelled" until death. With 3 out of 13 big game animals being "bang flops" where I purposely disrupted CNS, and 4 additional kills being in the 20 yards or less distance travelled realm with hear/lung shots.

 

[HighUintas]

What die are you using for this?

 

[huntnful]

What die are you using for this?

I’m using a SAC creedmoor die

 

[OutdoorAg]

Great info! What was the average impact velocity and impact location on the bang flop deer? Are your "high shoulder" shots potentially a bit higher than you think damaging spine with the wound channel?

I kept track of my 2024 kills with 80 ELDX and 22CM and saw an average of 45ish yards of "distance travelled" until death. With 3 out of 13 big game animals being "bang flops" where I purposely disrupted CNS, and 4 additional kills being in the 20 yards or less distance travelled realm with hear/lung shots.

No clue on impact velocity. Not sure on CNS damage. I'm sure that could be factored in, but we field gut, hang, and ship off most of the deer with the hide on, so a postmortem isnt always performed.

I just know than an 80gr ELDM moving at a pretty rapid speed will do its job when it impacts a deer in the shoulder from 50-350 yards away. And likely much, much farther.

 

[justin davis]

I killed two this morning with a 17 grain VMAX at 85 and 130ish yards. One to the neck and one to the lungs.

Coyotes in general can go a long ways when hit. Much further on average than big game animals across the board due to their willingness to survive and “fight” being quite high. That doesn’t mean they aren’t dead somewhere.

A 62 grain ELDVT out a 22CM at any velocity is going to kill coyotes very well.

Oh yea I know it kills them. I’m just regurgitating info that I’ve been told by some guys I know. They tried them and didnt like the results of dogs getting up and running away. They went back to 69 TMK and 75/80 ELDMs.

 

[justin davis]

I’m using a SAC creedmoor die

How do you like the SAC die?

 

[huntnful]

How do you like the SAC die?

They make excellent stuff, and the die is no different. I mostly just like that they have neck/shoulder bushings that ensures a full resize of the neck and not leaving a “donut” at the bottom on the neck.

I don’t use any of the washers and shit for getting shoulder bump perfect though.

 

[huntnful]

Most recent test was primers. Tested CCI 200 (my original primer), CCI 250, Fed 215M & Fed 210M. All with 40gr. H4350 in virgin brass. All 10 shot groups.


The CCI 250 is really the only one that outside the normal 10 shot group size. Still not very significantly, and could just fall into the overall dispersion of the rifle.


Here’s a video through the scope shooting the first Mag of the 210M group.

 

[huntnful]

Then I shot the Kraft drill. In all honesty, I don’t time myself. I just try to shoot as fast as I can, while still feeling in control of the gun. I’m using it to engrain fundamentals under pressure. Speed will come.

Don’t even know where the 5th round for the freehand portion even went . I’ve repeatedly had 80% hits from my supported positions. And this is actually the first time I felt good with the seated unsupported as well. Although I did miss pretty substantially. But I feel like I’m making good progress.


Once I shot the 20 shot drill. I went back to 100 yards, and just shoot the last stage again, and film it. Which is 1 shot, from each position, in under a minute. I would miss the 1 minute mark if I was wearing a pack and shit I’m sure. But I barely made it with what you see in the video. All 4 shots you seen in the video ended up landing on their targets. Which was cool. First time I’ve done that. Here’s the last 4 shots.


And the video shooting them. I don’t use a rear bag for prone, just to save time.

 

[SouthPaw]

That is the rifle hunting drill. The kraft drill is different.

Rifle Kraft

 

[huntnful]

That is the rifle hunting drill. The kraft drill is different.

Rifle Kraft

Thank you for the clarification!! Some reason when I glanced at this while stapling it, “Kraft” registered in my brain haha.

 

[BBob]

That is the rifle hunting drill. The kraft drill is different.

Rifle Kraft

Kraft Data Driven Training: Try This

Sniper's Hide and Chris Way of Kraft are partnering up to collect some data from Shooters. Chris is a very data-driven shooter, he is a competitive shooter and loves to analyze data. He Krafted a precision rifle course of fire designed to be shot at 100 yards and collect data from multiple...

www.snipershide.com

Kraft Drill - Testing Accuracy - Northern Rifle

RifleKraft's has designed the Kraft Drill to test positional shooting. Learn the drill and whether you should add it to your practice regime.

northernrifle.com

 

[Bluumoon]

Thank you for the clarification!! Some reason when I glanced at this while stapling it, “Kraft” registered in my brain haha.
View attachment 824488

Get a feel for it and then commit to the timer. Start with pack on, rifle in carrier or sling or however you roll.

 

[huntnful]

Get a feel for it and then commit to the timer. Start with pack on, rifle in carrier or sling or however you roll.

Yeah I might do it fully at some point for sure. I just like having solid fundamentals to translate into the field. The full drill is just not super applicable to most hunting scenarios I’ve ever encounter. So I’m not really hell bent on mastering it, under time, is what it is honestly. But do really appreciate how much I’ve learned by just going through it a half dozen times or so.

 

[Bluumoon]

Yeah I might do it fully at some point for sure. I just like having solid fundamentals to translate into the field. The full drill is just not super applicable to most hunting scenarios I’ve ever encounter. So I’m not really hell bent on mastering it, under time, is what it is honestly. But do really appreciate how much I’ve learned by just going through it a half dozen times or so.

As someone who had never practiced timed drills I think it is beneficial to all positions/set ups you may use, in grains speed/efficiency of movement.

Sitting supported is the toughest for me to keep under time, but is very useful for midrange shots in a hurry.

 

[huntnful]

As someone who had never practiced timed drills I think it is beneficial to all positions/set ups you may use, in grains speed/efficiency of movement.

Sitting supported is the toughest for me to keep under time, but is very useful for midrange shots in a hurry.

Great point there! Just doing it “as fast as I can”, has helped the flow of movement’s tremendously.

Seated supported is probably the most versatile position of them IMO. I’ve been focusing on that a lot lately

 

[Formidilosus]

Yeah I might do it fully at some point for sure. I just like having solid fundamentals to translate into the field. The full drill is just not super applicable to most hunting scenarios I’ve ever encounter. So I’m not really hell bent on mastering it, under time, is what it is honestly. But do really appreciate how much I’ve learned by just going through it a half dozen times or so.

A note on the applicability of the full drill:

Even if you never carry a pack, the complexity of doing the full process is extremely beneficial to skill building. One doesn’t farmers carry 100lb dumbbells for reps while hunting, or or do 50m sprint repeats, or 15min of pull-ups, etc.; not Don they shoot round after perfect round from bench or prone into little bitty groups- but all of those things are drills that do improve performance while hunting. It’s the same with the Hunting rifle drill.
My history with the drill was primarily with people that never, ever carried a large pack with a bolt action rifle and would use it like in the drill. However, the skill progression in shooting of people that shot the drill was immediately obvious. People that shot and practiced for Carl’s modified drill, simply performed better on other novel and complicated shooting tasks.

 

[huntnful]

A note on the applicability of the full drill:

Even if you never carry a pack, the complexity of doing the full process is extremely beneficial to skill building. One doesn’t farmers carry 100lb dumbbells for reps while hunting, or or do 50m sprint repeats, or 15min of pull-ups, etc.; not Don they shoot round after perfect round from bench or prone into little bitty groups- but all of those things are drills that do improve performance while hunting. It’s the same with the Hunting rifle drill.
My history with the drill was primarily with people that never, ever carried a large pack with a bolt action rifle and would use it like in the drill. However, the skill progression in shooting of people that shot the drill was immediately obvious. People that shot and practiced for Carl’s modified drill, simply performed better on other novel and complicated shooting tasks.

Definitely valid points. I have progressed enough just simply learning what positions to get into and efficient ways to get into them, that I’m sure it would do me some good to do the full timed drill for sure at this point

 

[huntnful]

62gr. ELD-VT’s with 43gr. H4350

Pressure signs were fine. But I’d probably consider it about max due to the slightly flat primers.

10 shots