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  1. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    His results showed that the mono made 1.5-2" diameter wounds while the TMK made wounds twice that diameter. That is a gigantic difference in tissue disruption, not to mention that the difference would be even more drastic at further ranges or in shorter barrels. Of course a 1.5" hole in an...
  2. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    Considering that my TMKs chrono at 2820 - 2840 fps out of a 20" barrel gas gun, I'd say that is very slow. No worries though, you should still be terminally effective out to 500 yards. However, if I had to choose between .75" groups and 2670fps vs 1 inch groups and 2800fps, I'd go with higher...
  3. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    I've never used the 88gr ELD-M on game, but I have seen a single gel test of it on youtube. The conclusion was that is was a very mediocre performer at .223 velocities, unlike the 77gr TMK. I'm assuming that means roughly 2500fps. I know it's a completely different animal in the 22 creedmoor...
  4. C

    AR15 for training and hunting

    That or any lightweight AR10 would be a fantastic choice as well. Load that bad boy up with 155-178gr TMK, ELD-M or AMAX, and you'll have a VERY effective setup.
  5. C

    AR15 for training and hunting

    TMK out of a 16" will be good out to 400ish yards, assuming 2700fps muzzle velocity.
  6. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    From best to worst, and the reasons why: 1) 73gr ELD-M - performs similarly to the TMK albeit with less penetration. Very explosive bullet. 2) 75gr Gold dot - seems to be the most effective of any .223 gold dot. Not entirely sure why, but that's what I have personally observed. Very very good...
  7. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    Depends on the loading. Non MSR fusion is a light .223 load, so it has basically zero recoil. Factory 5.56 77gr TMK is noticeably harder kicking, in my experience. 5.56 77gr TMK loads will push the 77gr bullet to essentially identical velocities as the 62gr bullet in the .223 fusion load.
  8. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    Question for those who have used TMKs in various calibers on game: is there something special about the 77gr version that does not apply to TMKs of other calibers? By that I mean, are all TMKs constructed similarly in terms of relative jacket thickness, relative hollowpoint size, minimum...
  9. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    .223 loads are generally measured out of a 24" test barrel. A factory .223 load would typically measure around 2600fps out of a 20" barrel and 2500fps out of a 16". BH 5.56 77TMK is likely around 150fps faster than this .223 federal load.
  10. C

    223 vs 22CM

    @Formidilosus in your experience, does tissue damage correlate more with overall energy or impact velocity? For example, an 88gr ELD-M out of a 22 creedmoor at 3200fps impact velocity vs a 147gr ELD-M out of a 6.5 Creedmoor at 2700fps impact velocity. Given similar shot placement, which do you...
  11. C

    223 vs 22CM

    I'm not as knowledgeable as most here, but I can answer some of these questions. Yes, absolutely. Assuming similar shot placement, a 77 TMK striking an animal in excess of 3000fps will expand more, fragment more and dump the (already greater) energy into the target more effectively than a 77...
  12. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    Criterion Core or Hybrid. Former if you prefer a nicer (better handling) barrel profile, latter if you want the best precision. They are both extremely well gassed too.
  13. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    Not trying to start anything, but can you explain why you wouldn't feel comfortable using .223 on anything bigger than a coyote? The 77gr TMK has been shown to be an effective killer on animals several times the size of whitetail deer, let alone coyotes. There is plenty of proof in this thread...
  14. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    Wow, that's way smaller than I was expecting (never used TSX before). Isn't that pretty much what the TMK does at velocities a bit under 2000 fps? I know consistent fragmentation is a huge force multiplier for rifle bullets, but it's still hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that one...
  15. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    Have any of you .22 creedmoor guys tried gold dots? I know the 75gr gold dot expands and penetrates very well at .223 velocities but doesn't fragment much. I'm curious if/how their behavior changes at velocities well over 3000 fps.
  16. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    Just out of curiosity, was the heart directly in the path of the TMK?
  17. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    I saw a picture earlier in the thread where the TMK left a 4"+ hole in the ribs. It's pretty amazing that a little .223 bullet can cause such carnage.
  18. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    I'm not sure if this applies to other calibers, but I'm almost certain that .223 fusions expand down to 1700ish fps. Similar to the TMK, minus the fragmentation to aid in wounding. My personal limit for a bonded bullet (aside from something like an ABLR) is 2000fps impact, but form may have a...
  19. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    Wow, that is an incredibly useful feature to navigate a thread of this size. Had no idea that was even a thing.
  20. C

    .223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

    Noted. If I couldn't find any loaded 77TMK, what would you recommend instead? Everything is stupid expensive these days, but I think I could get my hands on some 62gr fusion MSR.

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