Zeiss "Lifetime" Warranty - refusal to stand behind its product

[JGRaider]

I'll trade you a Chinese Zeiss Terra for a Razor HD. Shoot me a PM.

 

[HunterActual]

As I am sure you are aware, forums like this cannot exist without paid advertisers. Your response could have stood alone without you using the name of your company. If you use the name of your company when the post could have stood alone without it, you are advertising. You have done it in two of your recent posts. I like your company and your prices, but trying to pull this crap, is sleazy, and I won't do business with a sleazy company. Don't play naive either. That crap won't fly.

Well I'm not trying to be sleazy. I was just legitimately trying to say that we deal with Zeiss a lot and haven't had bad issues with them.

 

[Roguemountainhunter]

Well, that sucks. But good to know. I just picked up a conquest scope. Hope I don't need warranty service done anytime soon.

 

[KenLee]

Glad I clicked on this thread. No Zeiss for me after reading this. Disappointing.

I won't live another 25 years, so if the product and price are right, I'll buy more Zeiss scopes.

 

[Spiral Horn]

Basing multi $k purchase decisions on what others post on web-based threads is a bit naive. Yes, the OP had a negative experience with Zeiss. But I’ll go as far as to say, if someone has never experienced a less then fully satisfying warranty claim with a binocular, spotter, or riflescope, then they simply haven’t owned enough optics.

Personally owned numerous Leica, Zeiss, and Swarovski products (and others) over the years and have had mixed warranty experiences with all of them - some exceptionally good, most were satisfactory, and a few just plain terrible. Even so, I haven’t sworn off of any of the Big 3 yet and still enjoy each of them.

BTW - each of the Big 3 have stood the test of time and are still producing exceptional optics. Will many of the newer startups heavily pushing ”no fault, lifetime warranties” still be in business 25 years from now???

 

[SomeJackassOnAForum]

Am I correct in my reading here?

-The product is 25 years old, and considered out of service.

-Zeiss offered a discount on a new product.

-The product's owner is upset because he can get an exceptional deal through industry discounts on Zeiss products that happens to be better than the discount Zeiss offered? (Presumably below retail?)

This is quite interesting...

 

[cuerro viejo]

three years ago I sent in a scope i bought in 99. Then sent me and brand new upgraded model scope even thought mine had been discontinued

 

[Trial153]

Am I correct in my reading here?

-The product is 25 years old, and considered out of service.

-Zeiss offered a discount on a new product.

-The product's owner is upset because he can get an exceptional deal through industry discounts on Zeiss products that happens to be better than the discount Zeiss offered? (Presumably below retail?)

This is quite interesting...

Long story short this guy was thinking he was getting a new spotting scope after using his and it working for 25 years.

A discount wasn’t enough. He wanted a free lunch. When he didn’t get it he had tantrum and came on here to rant. Sadly there are plenty of members apparently that have the same selfish greedy attitude.

 

[Beendare]

Is Zeiss a top notch optic? -absolutely no question

But when we are paying upwards of $3k for binos and scopes…I want a top notch warranty to go with it.

Zeiss warranty has been good to me in the past But its no longer worth holding these 20+ years.

 

[Macintosh]

@SomeJackassOnAForum @Trial153 , Im not clear where you got that info? the very first post says what he got:

“The response I received was surprising: “We have completed the inspection on your Vario-Okular 15x-45x/20-60x, Serial # *****40 and have determined that your optic is either beyond economic repair or not repairable.” And with that, Zeiss would not honor the lifetime warranty even though Zeiss did acknowledge that it was not due to consumer abuse or mistreatment.
I spoke to Joseph “Joe” Israel at Zeiss whose offer to resolve the matter was to sell me a used Vario-Okular at retail price but without a warranty. He went on to explain that "Lifetime" does not really mean "Lifetime" but rather what Zeiss holds to be a reasonable period of time”

*He thought “lifetime warranty” meant that a product that wasnt abused, was otherwise in good working order, and developed an issue not caused by misuse, and was not listed in any of their “not covered by the warranty” points, would be covered under their warranty, regardless of whether it was 10 or 25 or 40 years old. Thats the whole point of this thread, that zeis advertises a “lifetime warranty”, but will not tell anyone what the “life of the product” actually means.

*He said in the very first post that as a resolution he was offered a USED product at RETAIL price, WITHOUT any warranty.

the point of the thread is not about a 25 year old product, its about deceptive advertising and setting a realistic expectation of what you are actually spending your money on. Under their non-policy they could just as easily call a 5-year old product “beyond its reasonable lifetime”…do you think that would be reasonable? I dont, but there is NOTHING in their written policy that sets an expectation of what their actual warranty period is. Would you be equally dismissive if it was a 10 year old optic? All anyone is asking for is for some specificity so we know what we can reasonably expect, not a weaselly cop-out that sounds good on paper but lets them decide at their whim what they will and wont cover. Id be perfectly satisfied if they said optics lifetime was 5 years from purchase—at least we’d know what to expect. The problem is not that they wont cover products older than X (???) years old, the problem is they are being deceptive in advertising what their policy actually is. I just dont like being lied to, and at a minimum this is right there where its bordering on being lied to.

 

[BjornF16]

Post #138 he said it was 25 years old

Actually, post #138 says “less than 20 years old”

The Okular is less than 20 years old.

 

[BjornF16]

An even bigger joke is that people can't seem to comprehend what the written word says and actually means. "Lifetime" isn't an ambiguous term, as it is very direct and distinct........unless your Zeiss.

“Limited Lifetime “… since words have meaning.

Apparently Zeiss saw fit to limit the lifetime warranty, at their sole discretion.

To add insult to injury, they offered to “sell” the OP a used optic without a warranty.

While I won’t rush to sell the few Zeiss optics I currently own, I certainly won’t buy anything new from them given their approach to warranties.

 

[nobody]

Actually, post #138 says “less than 20 years old”

Interesting. When I wrote that post OP’s post said “about 25 years old” looks like the story has changed…

 

[Macintosh]

I dont think its even relevant whether its 20 or 25 years old, or more. Under their policy there is nothing to give us a clue about whether 20 or 25 years is reasonable or not. It could be 5 years. Or 10. Or 40. Or it might have nothing to do with age, and be based on the overall condition of the product. We have no way of knowing. Op had an expectation that “lifetime” meant while the optic was otherwise overall in good shape and good working order, ie regardless of age the product seemed to still be well within its lifetime, as was advertised. That seems highly reasonable to me, especially when the prominently advertised “lifetime of the product” warranty fine print 1) doesnt say anything about a specific age, current vs discontinued, etc, and 2) lists several other exclusions, none of which apply.

 

[SomeJackassOnAForum]

@SomeJackassOnAForum @Trial153 , Im not clear where you got that info? the very first post says what he got:

“The response I received was surprising: “We have completed the inspection on your Vario-Okular 15x-45x/20-60x, Serial # *****40 and have determined that your optic is either beyond economic repair or not repairable.” And with that, Zeiss would not honor the lifetime warranty even though Zeiss did acknowledge that it was not due to consumer abuse or mistreatment.
I spoke to Joseph “Joe” Israel at Zeiss whose offer to resolve the matter was to sell me a used Vario-Okular at retail price but without a warranty. He went on to explain that "Lifetime" does not really mean "Lifetime" but rather what Zeiss holds to be a reasonable period of time”

*He thought “lifetime warranty” meant that a product that wasnt abused, was otherwise in good working order, and developed an issue not caused by misuse, and was not listed in any of their “not covered by the warranty” points, would be covered under their warranty, regardless of whether it was 10 or 25 or 40 years old. Thats the whole point of this thread, that zeis advertises a “lifetime warranty”, but will not tell anyone what the “life of the product” actually means.

*He said in the very first post that as a resolution he was offered a USED product at RETAIL price, WITHOUT any warranty.

the point of the thread is not about a 25 year old product, its about deceptive advertising and setting a realistic expectation of what you are actually spending your money on. Under their non-policy they could just as easily call a 5-year old product “beyond its reasonable lifetime”…do you think that would be reasonable? I dont, but there is NOTHING in their written policy that sets an expectation of what their actual warranty period is. Would you be equally dismissive if it was a 10 year old optic? All anyone is asking for is for some specificity so we know what we can reasonably expect, not a weaselly cop-out that sounds good on paper but lets them decide at their whim what they will and wont cover. Id be perfectly satisfied if they said optics lifetime was 5 years from purchase—at least we’d know what to expect. The problem is not that they wont cover products older than X (???) years old, the problem is they are being deceptive in advertising what their policy actually is. I just dont like being lied to, and at a minimum this is right there where its bordering on being lied to.

Beendare,

Attached are several of the relevant communications.

They are not doing anything of value. As I noted, they offered to sell me lower end optics at a “deal price” that is higher than what I would pay with my “Pro Deals”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's in the letters he provided and a later post.

Their offer to sell him an ocular without a warranty is pretty generous. They cannot service, so how could they honor a warranty?

 

[BjornF16]

Their offer to sell him an ocular without a warranty is pretty generous. They cannot service, so how could they honor a warranty?

Is there a typo in there somewhere?

If they can’t service it, there are several things they could do:

1. Replace it with a refurbished scope at no charge and without any further warranty.

2. Replace it with refurbished scope at a very minor cost with a warranty.

3. Provide a significant discount on a new scope at below Pro discount with full warranty on new scope.

 

[JohnnyB]

Or, as we have read on this forum many times from other companies, give a newer model at no charge and rack up some good will and positive marketing.

The economic hardship of honoring a warranty isn’t the concern of the consumer.

 

[SomeJackassOnAForum]

Is there a typo in there somewhere?

If they can’t service it, there are several things they could do:

1. Replace it with a refurbished scope at no charge and without any further warranty.

2. Replace it with refurbished scope at a very minor cost with a warranty.

3. Provide a significant discount on a new scope at below Pro discount with full warranty on new scope.

No typo.

-How could they do number 2? They can't service it?

-Why below Pro discount? Zeiss is saying that the life of the product is over and that this is a goodwill offer. How foolish of them to not realize that they already extended him their goodwill!

 

[BjornF16]

No typo.

-How could they do number 2? They can't service it?

-Why below Pro discount? Zeiss is saying that the life of the product is over and that this is a goodwill offer. How foolish of them to not realize that they already extended him their goodwill!

Replace doesn’t mean repair.

Below Pro discount because they can’t repair it and it was under warranty.

 

[realunlucky]

No typo.

-How could they do number 2? They can't service it?

-Why below Pro discount? Zeiss is saying that the life of the product is over and that this is a goodwill offer. How foolish of them to not realize that they already extended him their goodwill!

Ziess-- beyond economic repair or not repairable.

Little play on words from Ziess meaning that it could possibly be repaired but due to costs involved simply not worth it to them to do so.