Zeiss "Lifetime" Warranty - refusal to stand behind its product

[JGRaider]

It doesn't take a high IQ to understand that Zeiss is taking the low road in handling these types of warranty claims. "Lifetime" is easy to understand.....it means lifetime, forever, period. If they do not want to say Lifetime, and not mean Lifetime, they need to include an asterisk or better yet elaborate on what Lifetime means to them so there's no misunderstanding. This isn't that hard to say "lifetime of the product cycle" or such.

Zeiss ranks right up there with Bass Pro Shops in screwing customers out of the warranty coverage they were originally sold.

 

[big44a4]

I like most people here don’t follow the “reasonable life” of product definition. I tend to think reasonable life of optics is 50+ years if you forced me put a number to it. I have rifle scopes and guns older than me that are still more than usable. I will pass them down to my kids one day. Heck I got some cotton T-shirts that are 12+ years old that I still wear on a regular basis.

I have one zeiss V6 scope and this is pushing me another direction on future purchases.

 

[Happy Antelope]

Here is the link to the zeiss warranty. https://www.zeiss.com/consumer-prod...lescopes/customer-service.html#zeiss-warranty

I'm assuming your older product definitely had different lifetime warranty wording correct? Likely a lot broader? If you still have it would you post it? I know Swaro has a different warranty for their older products and the new one is a lot more limited as well. Leica just made theirs a lot broader. Neither has lifetime wording.

As a dealer, I've never had a problem getting a replacement or an item fixed for a customer. But I 100% understand your frustration, And I usually only deal with newer products unfortunately.

Let me know if you want me to see what I can get done for you. If you want to PM me all the details I'll make a few calls today. It could be nothing more than one person that made a bad decision. Let me know I'll do what I can.

 

[Reed104R]

I occasionally send older binoculars and scopes to off for repair/rebuild. I recall having a discussion with the owner of a prominent repair service many of you would be familiar with. I told him about some binoculars I was considering to send to Zeiss for warranty service. He chuckled and assured me Zeiss would not stand behind their lifetime warranty. I guess that's why he makes a living repairing Zeiss optics (and others as well).

 

[Matt Cashell]

I wonder if Meopta would clean and repair this scope/eyepiece for a fee, since they likely manufactured it.

If you buy Swaro, Leica, etc you are still buying a Zeiss product, that's their glass in all Swaro Optics.

Paul

All?

 

[Happy Antelope]

I like most people here don’t follow the “reasonable life” of product definition. I tend to think reasonable life of optics is 50+ years if you forced me put a number to it. I have rifle scopes and guns older than me that are still more than usable. I will pass them down to my kids one day. Heck I got some cotton T-shirts that are 12+ years old that I still wear on a regular basis.

I have one zeiss V6 scope and this is pushing me another direction on future purchases.

I wonder if Meopta would clean and repair this scope/eyepiece for a fee, since they likely manufactured it.




All?

Sorry no I thought I chaged that to "most". Definitely could be all but obviously there's thousands of products so I can't verify that. If you buy a top end Swaro Z6 or Z8 scope or NL Pure it has Schott glass. The Z3 and Z5 come from US. I would think its still Schott lens grounded by Swaro or Meopta, only they can answer that. It's considered the best raw glass in the world, I can't imagine why they'd be buying it anywhere else they've been working together for a long time.

Meopta also use a schott glass although the assembly is done in USA or Europe. But wouldnt be suprised if they did supply the parts and finished lens to Swaro. They like to hide this info.

Getting a bit off topic from the warranty issue. But hard to get away from a Zeiss part in the high end optic world.

 

[Matt Cashell]

Sorry no I thought I chaged that to "most". Definitely could be all but obviously there's thousands of products so I can't verify that. If you buy a top end Swaro Z6 or Z8 scope or NL Pure it has Schott glass. The Z3 and Z5 come from US. I would think its still Schott lens grounded by Swaro or Meopta, only they can answer that. It's considered the best raw glass in the world, I can't imagine why they'd be buying it anywhere else they've been working together for a long time.

Meopta also use a schott glass although the assembly is done in China the Philippines or Europe. But wouldnt be suprised if they did supply the parts and finished lens to Swaro. They like to hide this info.

Getting a bit off topic from the warranty issue

It is unlikely you could get a straight answer from Swarovski, Leica, or anyone else about their raw glass selection/sourcing.

The glass being “Schott” tells the end user very little given they offer a wide variety of raw glass to manufacturers. The glass in a GPO product and a top end Swarovski product may be (likely are) very different from each other, even if they are both sourced from Schott.

The optical design, grinding, and coating technology/application have a much greater effect on performance than the raw glass selection.

Regarding the OP’s situation, many Diascopes were manufactured by Meopta and are clearly marked “Made in Czech Republic.”

 

[Happy Antelope]

Swarovskis Customer service is god tier. Buying any optic of that standard I will always go with them

They dont offer a lifetime warranty and if you do need to pay to fix something its very very expensive and can be slow. BUT I do love my Swaro spotter and scopes....Love them!

It is unlikely you could get a straight answer from Swarovski, Leica, or anyone else about their raw glass selection/sourcing.

The glass being “Schott” tells the end user very little given they offer a wide variety of raw glass to manufacturers. The glass in a GPO product and a top end Swarovski product may be (likely are) very different from each other, even if they are both sourced from Schott.

The optical design, grinding, and coating technology/application have a much greater effect on performance than the raw glass selection.

Regarding the OP’s situation, many Diascopes were manufactured by Meopta and are clearly marked “Made in Czech Republic.”

100% correct I would say. Was on the phone with GPO owner yesterday having this talk. That being said most high end optics advertise which line Schott Glass they use seems like they hide the mid level sourching. The coatings are the big secret.

 

[Spiral Horn]

Exactly right. Zeiss is a massive worldwide corporation. They have plants in over 30 countries, and began making optical glass outside of Germany as far back as the 1960s. So, the lauded Schott HT glass in one’s favorite optic might have just have easily come from Malaysia, the Philippines, Germany, Hungary, or Pennsylvania. It is sourced by spec/grade.

Also, Matt is dead-on about Meopta. They’ve been an OEM for many decades and have really only recently been widely marketing under their own label here in the west. I would‘n’t at all be surprised to find Meopta DNA in any product rom the Big 3.

 

[OspreyZB]

So you are saying Swarovski and Leica do not use Schott Glass in some of their optics? What does it have to do with this thread? If you buy Swarovski, Leica, GPO, or several other brands it still supports Carl Zeis still. Similar to not drinking Bud, but buying a Corona instead, same pot.

This analogy doesn't work for several different reasons. A better analogy would be this completely made up scenario: Anheuser-Busch the parent company of Bud and Corona also owns a company that produces the raw glass used in their bottles. That company also sells that glass to Heineken, who blows their own bottles using that raw glass. You could then say that buying Heineken indirectly supports Anheuser-Busch, but it wouldn't make Heineken beer a "Bud product".

 

[Spiral Horn]

I completely understand the OP’s frustration. When buying premium products there is an expectation that they either will not fail or if they do, things will be made right. Having owned numerous optics for decades I know all too well that mechanical devices sometimes fail. Personally, I’ve had mixed results with warranty repair coverage from each of the Big 3.

Although the OP made it clear that Zeiss said they could not fix/repair (and were apparently unwilling to replace) the out of production scope, I never really got a clear picture of what Zeiss actually offered to make things right. There was a mention of a “goodwill“ offer, but no details of what that entailed.

 

[Crawl79]

This is a forewarning to anyone who is considering buying Zeiss product(s), in part, because of the Transferable Limited Lifetime Warranty.



I have multiple Zeiss Diascopes and Victory line scopes. I have never needed to request warranty repair from Zeiss, which is a very good thing indeed. One of the oculars for an 85mm Disacope developed a small opaque “globule” on an internal lens. The globule was static indicating that it was not water. I tried a number of possible solutions, i.e., placing the ocular in a bowl of dry rice, storing it with desiccant, etc. Naturally these efforts were fruitless because the ocular is waterproof.



Because I have multiple Diascope bodies and eyepieces to choose from and Zeiss has a Limited Lifetime Warranty I wasn’t rushed to send in the ocular for warranty repair. The warranty states in relevant section:



I spoke to Joseph “Joe” Israel at Zeiss whose offer to resolve the matter was to sell me a used Vario-Okular at retail price but without a warranty. He went on to explain that "Lifetime" does not really mean "Lifetime" but rather what Zeiss holds to be a reasonable period of time.

I spoke to this same guy a while back, we was definitely not my favorite person to speak to. Eventually I got squared away though.

 

[Happy Antelope]

This analogy doesn't work for several different reasons. A better analogy would be this completely made up scenario: Anheuser-Busch the parent company of Bud and Corona also owns a company that produces the raw glass used in their bottles. That company also sells that glass to Heineken, who blows their own bottles using that raw glass. You could then say that buying Heineken indirectly supports Anheuser-Busch, but it wouldn't make Heineken beer a "Bud product".

Didn't jump on here to argue corporate structure.

 

[Kenn]

Long ago I bought an expensive sewing machine for my wife and the dealer promoted a "worry free lifetime warranty." After 5 years the motor died and I took it in and they gave me an estimate for a repair. The seller said that the lifetime of a motor is less than five years. As we argued he said that an attorney had assured him that his warranty description was valid. I said that we were going to find out if the attorney general agreed with his attorney and he then decided to repair it for free just this once.

No company should ever offer a lifetime warranty. Replacing or repairing an item forever makes no sense. On the other hand Leupold and Nikon seem to accomplish it. Even then, I would prefer they lower the price and stop adding what is actually an insurance policy

 

[Spiral Horn]

This analogy doesn't work for several different reasons. A better analogy would be this completely made up scenario: Anheuser-Busch the parent company of Bud and Corona also owns a company that produces the raw glass used in their bottles. That company also sells that glass to Heineken, who blows their own bottles using that raw glass. You could then say that buying Heineken indirectly supports Anheuser-Busch, but it wouldn't make Heineken beer a "Bud product".

This is just plain wrong. Zeiss is a massive worldwide corporation with many business lines. Zeiss Sport Optics and Schott Optical are just two of the business lines of the same overall company. The reasons for legal separation is for the lawyers to explain. Zeiss also has a huge number of other business lines = microscopes, medical equipment, many different types of materials and fabrication, etc. Claiming Zeiss and Schott are not the same corp is like someone claiming the part of Tesla that makes cars has no relation to the part that makes solar panels, the power-wall, and various energy storage and technology systems.

BTW - Schott does not only supply raw glass. They can. However, they are capable of supplying everything from raw, blanks, rough lenses, finished lenses, prisms, and complete assemblies.

 

[Spiral Horn]

Eventually I got squared away though.

How did you get squared away?

 

[Happy Antelope]

Long ago I bought an expensive sewing machine for my wife and the dealer promoted a "worry free lifetime warranty." After 5 years the motor died and I took it in and they gave me an estimate for a repair. The seller said that the lifetime of a motor is less than five years. As we argued he said that an attorney had assured him that his warranty description was valid. I said that we were going to find out if the attorney general agreed with his attorney and he then decided to repair it for free just this once.

No company should ever offer a lifetime warranty. Replacing or repairing an item forever makes no sense. On the other hand Leupold and Nikon seem to accomplish it. Even then, I would prefer they lower the price and stop adding what is actually an insurance policy

Nikon went out of business somewhat because of their lifetime warranty and agree.

 

[OspreyZB]

This is just plain wrong. Zeiss is a massive worldwide corporation with many business lines. Zeiss Sport Optics and Schott Optical are just two of the business lines of the same overall company. The reasons for legal separation is for the lawyers to explain. Zeiss also has a huge number of other business lines = microscopes, medical equipment, many different types of materials and fabrication, etc. Claiming Zeiss and Schott are not the same corp is like someone claiming the part of Tesla that makes cars has no relation to the part that makes solar panels, the power-wall, and various energy storage and technology systems.

BTW - Schott does not only supply raw glass. They can. However, they are capable of supplying everything from raw, blanks, rough lenses, finished lenses, prisms, and complete assemblies.

Please explain to me how my totally made-up analogy is "just plain wrong". The business lines you mention are all subsidiaries of Zeiss AG. Schott AG is NOT a subsidiary of Zeiss AG, they are sister companies.

 

[Thinkingman]

Nikon went out of business somewhat because of their lifetime warranty and agree.

I can assure you Nikon hasn't gone out of business and where did you get the information that some Meopta optics are assembled in Phillipines and China?

 

[OspreyZB]

The optika line is

I can assure you Nikon hasn't gone out of business and where did you get the information that some Meopta optics are assembled in Phillipines and China?

The optika series is mostly manufactured in the Philippines, but the "final assembly" takes place in Czech.