Zeiss "Lifetime" Warranty - refusal to stand behind its product

[flagstaff]

The OP’s experience with Zeiss customer service is EXACTLY what I experienced. I too needed warranty service on my 85MM Diascope. I need internal lens cleaning and the coarse focus knob repaired.

they sent me back an email saying since the Diascope was no longer made, it was not economical for them to clean and repair it. They were generous saying they would sell me their current model for like $3400.

I called them, spoke to Joseph and ripped his ass. He said I could send a formal complaint if I wanted. Which I did. Which they never responded to. I waited a few days, and sent another. Again, no response. I sent another.

A week later, my Diascope was returned. My coarse adjustment was fixed, but they did not clean the internal lens (I had a small what looked like a black pubic hair on the inside - very annoying).

I am done with Zeiss. I own all kinds of optics: Leica, Swarovski, Vortex, and Zeiss. Mostly Swarovski.

I am done with Zeiss forever and will never buy anything Zeiss again.

 

[Bluumoon]

Take them to small claims court? They can make it right or will pay a lawyer to deal with it.

 

[Reed104R]

Sounds like another win for Vortex!!!!

 

[sacklunch]

I've owned a few pieces of Zeiss glass in the past. Thankfully never needed the warranty, but I'd say without a doubt, based on the above and the lack of perceived value/performance ratio, end users woukd be better served by going with another company. I, for one, will never buy Zeiss again.

 

[Happy Antelope]

Sounds like a few insurance agents and insurance companies I have seen over the decades in this country.

They will love on you when you are paying them premiums, monthly or quarterly, but damn you once you file a legitimate claim. Almost like their phone goes dead or they don’t know how to read emails…

Best of luck with your situation, TheGrayRider.

Owning an insurance agency and I can tell you this is not really true. Insurance is the most regulated business in the country and it's not even close. Those contracts are very straight forward because of the hundreds of billions dollars they end having to pay out over wording that is slightly ambiguous and almost always goes in favor of the customer. Ask State Farm about flood and Katrina. That being said not saying some adjustors don't do a bad job and some stuff gets declined that should not be, but after arbitration that almost always get it right and when they don't bad faith nets the customer triple mostly.

As far as adjustors not getting back to you, thats a crappy employee and that needs to go, not a bad company. None of us would ever run a business that operates on a few % points of margin

The OP’s experience with Zeiss customer service is EXACTLY what I experienced. I too needed warranty service on my 85MM Diascope. I need internal lens cleaning and the coarse focus knob repaired.

they sent me back an email saying since the Diascope was no longer made, it was not economical for them to clean and repair it. They were generous saying they would sell me their current model for like $3400.

I called them, spoke to Joseph and ripped his ass. He said I could send a formal complaint if I wanted. Which I did. Which they never responded to. I waited a few days, and sent another. Again, no response. I sent another.

A week later, my Diascope was returned. My coarse adjustment was fixed, but they did not clean the internal lens (I had a small what looked like a black pubic hair on the inside - very annoying).

I am done with Zeiss. I own all kinds of optics: Leica, Swarovski, Vortex, and Zeiss. Mostly Swarovski.

I am done with Zeiss forever and will never buy anything Zeiss again.

If you buy Swaro, Leica, etc you are still buying a Zeiss product, that's their glass in all Swaro Optics.

Paul

 

[mtnbiker208]

lifetime warranties are not for the purhasers life, but the useful life of a product. Which seems to be right around 7 years for most manufacturers. Lifetime warranities where never, your life.

I know, this is not what people want, but it is the reality of lifetime warranties.

 

[Bluumoon]

I would say if it is not specifically defined in the warranty info as x period of time they’d have a hard time defending it in small claims.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

They'll argue in court that "lifetime" is the lifetime/lifecycle of the product, which is over.

So much for "everybody has lifetime warranties now days," I guess Vortex and Leupold still shine huh.

 

[Bluumoon]

Point is they have to pay to show up wherever you file, or hire a local lawyer. Probably cheaper to do the right thing and replace your faulty product.

 

[Macintosh]

lifetime warranties are not for the purhasers life, but the useful life of a product. Which seems to be right around 7 years for most manufacturers. Lifetime warranities where never, your life.

I know, this is not what people want, but it is the reality of lifetime warranties.

This is not universally true. I work for a company that offers a lifetime warranty. We routinely replace or repair products that are well beyond what any reasonable person would consider the life of the product. Vortex mentioned above is another. See posts on this site regarding bass pro shops socks.


Regardless, Imo a big banner calling out a “lifetime” warranty, but with fine print that dials that way back, is awfully close to being intentionally deceitful, regardless of how many companies do it. If its a 7-year warranty, call it a 7 year warranty, or at least be explicit up front about how long the warranty period actually is.

 

[EdP]

I have nothing to offer regarding the Zeiss Limited Lifetime issue, but here is a link to a company that does scope repair: Scope rpr co They perhaps can fix your problem.

 

[flagstaff]

lifetime warranties are not for the purhasers life, but the useful life of a product. Which seems to be right around 7 years for most manufacturers. Lifetime warranities where never, your life.

I know, this is not what people want, but it is the reality of lifetime warranties.

Makes sense

I will say that in my situation with Zeiss, I offered to pay a reasonable fee for the coarse adjustment repairs and lens cleaning.

Which their response was I can buy their latest model of spotting scope for $3400. Or I could have them send back my Diascope unfixed and internally uncleaned.

That’s where they lost me.

 

[rclouse79]

I would have expected better from Zeiss. It makes me appreciate the interactions I have had with other companies like Vortex and Kifaru even more.
Vortex repaired a pair of binoculars I bought second hand and damaged due my own negligence. There was no fee and they threw in a free hat when they mailed them back.
Kifaru repaired my pack at no cost long after most reasonable people would have considered the pack to have outlived its "lifetime".

 

[OspreyZB]

If you buy Swaro, Leica, etc you are still buying a Zeiss product, that's their glass in all Swaro Optics.

Not that it has much relevance to this thread, but this is simply not true...

 

[Happy Antelope]

Not that it has much relevance to this thread, but this is simply not true...

So you are saying Swarovski and Leica do not use Schott Glass in some of their optics? What does it have to do with this thread? If you buy Swarovski, Leica, GPO, or several other brands it still supports Carl Zeis still. Similar to not drinking Bud, but buying a Corona instead, same pot.

 

[Unckebob]

Take them to small claims court? They can make it right or will pay a lawyer to deal with it.

This. To serve them with the complaint, it can be sent to their registered agent for service of process in your state. Although the method of service can vary from state to state, it usually isn't very hard to find out.

It will cost them at least a thousand dollars to answer their question.

In addition, you may want look into the Deceptive Trade Practices Act in your state. Many offer treble damages and attorney's fees.

 

[OspreyZB]

So you are saying Swarovski and Leica do not use Schott Glass in their high end scopes and binos?

I'm saying that just because an optic contains schott glass does not make it a "Zeiss product". Zeiss AG and Schott AG are both owned by the same foundation (Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung), but they are 2 separate companies.

 

[Happy Antelope]

I'm saying that just because an optic contains schott glass does not make it a "Zeiss product". Zeiss AG and Schott AG are both owned by the same foundation (Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung), but they are 2 separate companies.

Ohh then you should have just said that in the first place, vs "this is simply not true." Like I said same parent company, same pot of money in the end call "Zeiss". I didn't jump on to pick a fight of words, I wanted to point out you are still giving money to Zeiss corporate depending on the brand you buy. Buy Vortex, they don't use Zeiss products. I stand behind what I said as simply true. They are also NOT separate, as Separate as Dodge and Ram, Bud and Corona, etc. Same ownership in the end IMO. Plenty of companies have a warranty similar to Vortex as well for the thread, but Vortex service is what makes it top shelf. They have to staff and product on hand to service the repair or replacement fast. Spoken to Zeiss many times, a lot of the time they don't even have a way to fix old products anymore, that being said they should have thrown a bone and got him something new at a huge discount. Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski do not operate on 90% product margins, they can't possibly offer the same warranty. Margin on Leica are TINY. I am sure Ferrari does not offer the same warranty as Kia. Swarovski also charges and arm and a leg for repairs sometimes. Different strokes for different folks. If you want a scope won't fail after you beat a bear with it, buy a NF or Trijicon. Sad to hear how Zeiss handled it. I shared this thread with my Zeiss rep earlier today and he forwarded it on.

 

[Summitdog]

lifetime warranties are not for the purhasers life, but the useful life of a product. Which seems to be right around 7 years for most manufacturers. Lifetime warranities where never, your life.

I know, this is not what people want, but it is the reality of lifetime warranties.

Zeiss could make the argument that “Lifetime” does not really mean lifetime but rather some other arbitrary subjective time frame. The counter argument would be the “Plain Language Doctrine” in the defining the term “lifetime”. It would really depend on whether the end-user lives in a consumer friendly jurisdiction as to which argument would prevail.


Happy Antelope, hopefully you told the Zeiss Rep that this is not the only platform I am using to forewarn customers.

 

[MattB]

If only there was a universally held definition of "lifetime".

Sounds like Zeiss needs to be shown a dictionary.