Wyoming proposal to slash Non-resident hunters

[Trial153]

#wy100/0
Why keep stealing your children's tags when don't need that 45million in NR license revenue and matching PR funds.

 

[johnsd16]

I’ve read most of this thread and wow, a lot of complaining. As a lifer in MN, when I had an opportunity to pick up and move for work/family I chose ID, partly due to hunting. Others are clearly making the same decision in several western states. WY has a relatively low population but a lot of animals. In the past it probably was very tolerable for NR to get as big a piece of the pie as they do.

I agree it is frustrating to buy in and invest $ in a state only to have the goalposts moved. It is their right to do so. Look at covid, remember 2 weeks to flatten the curve. You can see 12 months into this BS how pissed 10s of millions of people are. Fact is though, with NR tags, you choose where and what do to with your money. It’s sucks, and it isn’t “fair” but in ID something needed to be done and it wasn’t comfortable for everyone but it is better.

I have boys that are 12 and almost 10 and am not getting them in to all the states that I am for these reasons. Who knows where the goalposts will be in 10 years.

I am not a Buzz fan but can’t disagree with a lot of what has been said. I can’t stand the political skirting and the constant humble brags about all the tags and kills, but anyway. A question I would pose is.... does anyone really think $34 let alone $50 for a Resident antlerless PH or deer tag is reasonable? Maybe my meter is off but those are getting steep for bucks tags IMO and for antlerless I’ve always considered $20 and under the reasonable rate as of late. Elk is different but to pay $50 to shoot an 80lb PH doe in my backyard would make me want to puke.

 

[BuzzH]

I realize you didn’t write the legislation, but do you know why it wasn’t phrased this way in SF0103 last week? I know that many NR are heavily invested in moose, goat, sheep and bison pp’s, however I can also see the residents point of view for the 90/10 arguement here. They are maybe once or twice in a lifetime hunts and in very high demand, so no one is going to be happy under any allocation scheme. I guess where I got hung up on this bill as a NR was how drastically it would have impacted elk, deer and especially antelope. I look at draw odds often for those species. Sometimes I’ll look at resident draw odds for units I’m interested in hunting just to see if it typically fills or if many tags roll over. Damn near every time, the unit I’m looking at has 100% draw odds (or close to it) for residents. As it should be, and I’m totally in favor of residents getting the biggest cut and first crack at everything. These aren’t super high point units but they also aren’t crap. Typical 3-6 point units with 100% draw odds for residents, every single year.

My point is that it doesn’t make a ton of sense (to me) to curtail NR tags in units where non-residents are drawing with 100% odds year after year. Who does it benefit to do that? No gain to residents as they are already getting their tags, and the NR gets hammered by point creep with fewer getting out to hunt.

If something is coming, I believe they could do better than SF0103 by being a little more surgical in their approach, versus slash and burn of all tags for all species in all units.

To answer the first question. In any form of compromise situation, each side starts with their "pie in the sky" ask. You get the bill out there, you get people talking about it, plant the seed so to speak.

From there the work starts, what are each side going to be willing to settle for.

I somewhat agree with you, and that's why AT THIS TIME, I'm not against leaving deer and pronghorn tags alone as is. I'm also not against leaving reduced priced DEA the same AT THIS TIME. Why I'm also all about leaving 7,250 full priced tags in the initial draw for NR's. If we want to introduce NR's to public land elk hunting for the first time, it doesn't need to be in our best LQ areas, it needs to happen in general units. Remember, everyone says its more about the experience than antlers...so, more general tags should be more than adequate for that.

I'm not in favor of giving NR's any more than 10% of moose, sheep, goat, bison, LQ elk and eventually grizzly bear. I'm not in favor of giving NR's 0% of those species either. I'm in agreement with other states that limit similar species in their states to 10% NR quotas. Makes sense to me.

Not saying those won't change at some point either, in particular as we continue to push R3 and everyone on planet earth has to start hunting to save the NAM and Public lands mantra...including increasing numbers of Residents taking up hunting. I'll let someone else argue about those later, because they wont likely change again until long after I'm worm chit, or more likely a pile of ash scattered somewhere in the Blackfoot Drainage in Montana.

 

[BuzzH]

#wy100/0
Why keep stealing your children's tags when don't need that 45million in NR license revenue and matching PR funds.

Because to offset the revenue "loss" by passing the version of 90-10 that I believe will pass, would require a $3 increase in Resident fishing licenses to cover it?

#crybaby.

Burn those sheep and moose points if you can...

 

[Trial153]

#wy90/10causeswestillreallgneedthedough

 

[BuzzH]

Corb, can’t agree with you here! The State may set the rules but, private land has the ability to manage the resource better than the state ever could (and usually does). Very similar to your thoughts on states managing federal land at a higher level than the feds ever could.


if you really feel that way, you MUST tell Buzz, immediately!!! He missed a real good __-whipping at some point in his lifetime.

This looks like a class action lawsuit waiting to happen with all the vested point holders out there! However, I’m sure the fine print will hold WY harmless.

Class action lawsuit....study up on the law.

Laffin'

S.339 for starters.

Oh, I always love a good__-whipping, because I can administer one too.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Stay on topic....this is about 90-10, not 100-0.

I'm on board with 90-10 for MSGB and LQ elk in Wyoming.

I'm fine with leaving reduced priced tag EDP, and full price deer and pronghorn at current splits. I'm also fine with leaving 7,250 full priced NR elk tags in the initial draw in regulation as well.

It has occurred to me that Residents in every state look out and do more for wildlife in the states they live in. THE precise reason why I'm fine with them keeping 90% of the opportunity for themselves. It only makes one thing, and that's sense.

It's just that simple.

Fair enough, I guess we will just have to table 100/0 until WY residents decide 90/10 and 30 tags a year isn’t enough. Shouldn’t be too long, I expect you’ll be back to chastise NR hunters then too.

After living in various states and spending significant time abroad, I feel pretty thankful for the resident big game opportunities afforded to me as a CO resident. That being said it’s really hard for me to sympathize with the downtrodden WY resident hunter and their lack of big game opportunities under the current system.

You seem to be critical of hunter R3 efforts as they may have outpaced the resource, that is an interesting position from a BHA board member considering R3 seems to be a big BHA initiative.

 

[100percent]

Class action lawsuit....study up on the law.

Laffin'

S.339 for starters.

Oh, I always love a good__-whipping, because I can administer one too.

I covered the law with caveat... Laugh on.... Study spelling!

 

[tdhanses]

Sy Gilliland cares about Sy Gilliland and his outfitting business. He doesn't give two sheets about DIY non resident or resident hunters. He wants special treatment and opportunities for his paying customers. Don't fall for this BS from this jerk.

How‘s he any different then the residents for us NR guys? Seems both are only out for themselves so find it funny when a resident calls him out.

 

[BuzzH]

Fair enough, I guess we will just have to table 100/0 until WY residents decide 90/10 and 30 tags a year isn’t enough. Shouldn’t be too long, I expect you’ll be back to chastise NR hunters then too.

After living in various states and spending significant time abroad, I feel pretty thankful for the resident big game opportunities afforded to me as a CO resident. That being said it’s really hard for me to sympathize with the downtrodden WY resident hunter and their lack of big game opportunities under the current system.

You seem to be critical of hunter R3 efforts as they may have outpaced the resource, that is an interesting position from a BHA board member considering R3 seems to be a big BHA initiative.

You seem to like putting words in other people's mouths, false assumptions and flat making stuff up as you go along.

R3 is a good program...and we've done a good job at it, maybe too good. On top of R3, we've done a good job of getting hikers, bird watchers, campers, hikers etc exposed to public lands.

I think we've created a new problem, which is...where do we put everyone?

Infrastructure just isn't there to support the huge influx of new users we've so successfully brought into the fold..wouldn't you agree?

New challenge to address...but nothing that can't be done and the same 10% of the problem solvers will do 90% of the work to get it figured out.

 

[Fireman03]

LOL,
May I ask what state you reside in ?

Alabama I bet

 

[bayoublaster7527]

You seem to like putting words in other people's mouths, false assumptions and flat making stuff up as you go along.

R3 is a good program...and we've done a good job at it, maybe too good. On top of R3, we've done a good job of getting hikers, bird watchers, campers, hikers etc exposed to public lands.

I think we've created a new problem, which is...where do we put everyone?

Infrastructure just isn't there to support the huge influx of new users we've so successfully brought into the fold..wouldn't you agree?

New challenge to address...but nothing that can't be done and the same 10% of the problem solvers will do 90% of the work to get it figured out.

Those are some strong accusations: words in others mouths, false assumptions, and making stuff up. Do you believe 90/10 will be enough for WY residents going forward in say 10 to 15 years or so? If you do then my assumption may be found to be false. I hope it is.

I agree with you that we may be seeing the catastrophic success of R3 efforts. I wasn’t making anything up by pointing out your healthy criticism of it and I was honestly interested in your point of view. I also agree that the infrastructure isn’t there to support the influx of new hunters. Have to increase the pie correct? I would just caution against alienating NR hunters in threads like these and in future endeavors.

 

[CorbLand]

Alabama I bet

Why would you think I live in Alabama? I live in Utah. I may have 6 wives, but none of them are my sisters.

 

[CorbLand]

Corb, can’t agree with you here! The State may set the rules but, private land has the ability to manage the resource better than the state ever could (and usually does). Very similar to your thoughts on states managing federal land at a higher level than the feds ever could.


if you really feel that way, you MUST tell Buzz, immediately!!! He missed a real good __-whipping at some point in his lifetime.

This looks like a class action lawsuit waiting to happen with all the vested point holders out there! However, I’m sure the fine print will hold WY harmless.

That’s cool, not sure what you “can’t agree” with me on. The states manage the wildlife. Land owners manage the land. That’s more of a fact than an opinion.

 

[Fireman03]

Why would you think I live in Alabama? I live in Utah. I may have 6 wives, but none of them are my sisters.

Oh they aren't your sisters? My bad I take it back

 

[Trial153]

Holy hell you’re a stupid azz! Where in any post did he say 100/0? Your a troll, eat shit and die. I hate one sided idiots like you! Dumb bully with no brains, wants everything for yourself cuz you think you are entitled.
Matt

Good morning Matt.
Have a wonderful day.

 

[25orSo]

Why would you think I live in Alabama? I live in Utah. I may have 6 wives, but none of them are my sisters.

THAT is funny right there. Thanks for the laugh.

After reading the last several pages of this thread, I needed a good laugh.


In reading all of this and the related threads regarding Montana legislation, I'll just scratch hunting out west off my bucket list. It sounds like a lot more headache & hassle than it is worth, and I don't want to go somewhere where I am not welcome either.

I'll keep my money, and my support here at home.

 

[307]

I covered the law with caveat... Laugh on.... Study speling!

Preserved for comedic irony.

 

[Spiral Horn]

Applied for multiple species in the majority of Western States for over 20 years and have yet to draw any prime unit or prime species tag anywhere. The only way I’ve ever been able to hunt Wyoming is in the secondary draw (leftover tags/after draw) in units with mostly private property. Did my homework and hired outfitters with access to good property. I was able to have a few wonderful bowhunts and took a couple of great bucks - but none of it through the draw or point system.

When I began applying 20+ years ago the NR Draw System gave NR hunters a legitimate chance to build points and eventually draw tags (albeit for more money and less chance than a resident, even back then) but it has devolved into a cruel joke. With many factors impacting harvest targets and expanding applicant pools, NR are a politically convenient target. In the long-run, will diminishing NR access have any lasting positive impact on addressing the real issues facing hunting and wildlife in western states? Absolutely not. However, it provides great clarity about what to do with the seemingly never-ending requests for donations and support to organizations and efforts that primarily benefit western states. When it comes to who should benefit or even have a chance to participate in hunting the rallying cry is “this is ours, outsiders not welcome,” but when under attack or an issue comes up that specifically targets hunting in those states the rallying cry is “this effects all hunters and you should provide unquestioned support.” The continual assault on NR access in legislative proposal after proposal and the anti-NR venom from residents that I see posted here and all over other other hunting boards has been very educational. Thank you.

 

[Trial153]

Applied for multiple species in the majority of Western States for over 20 years and have yet to draw any prime unit or prime species tag anywhere. The only way I’ve ever been able to hunt Wyoming is in the secondary draw (leftover tags/after draw) in units with mostly private property. Did my homework and hired outfitters with access to good property. I was able to have a few wonderful bowhunts and took a couple of great bucks - but none of it through the draw or point system.

When I began applying 20+ years ago the NR Draw System gave NR hunters a legitimate chance to build points and eventually draw tags (albeit for more money and less chance than a resident, even back then) but it has devolved into a cruel joke. With many factors impacting harvest targets and expanding applicant pools, NR are a politically convenient target. In the long-run, will diminishing NR access have any lasting positive impact on addressing the real issues facing hunting and wildlife in western states? Absolutely not. However, it provides great clarity about what to do with the seemingly never-ending requests for donations and support to organizations and efforts that primarily benefit western states. When it comes to who should benefit or even have a chance to participate in hunting the rallying cry is “this is ours, outsiders not welcome,” but when under attack or an issue comes up that specifically targets hunting in those states the rallying cry is “this effects all hunters and you should provide unquestioned support.” The continual assault on NR access in legislative proposal after proposal and the anti-NR venom from residents that I see posted here and all over other other hunting boards has been very educational. Thank you.

x100