Wyoming proposal to slash Non-resident hunters

[Trial153]

So that’s thing, Buzz already established that WY doesn’t need any NR license fees. They can fund wildlife conservation through resident NGOs and volunteer work. You whiny NRs are really overplaying your funding hand once again. They don’t need your greatly exaggerated economic impact on the one week a year either. If you can’t vote in WY, then you don’t matter. End of story.

Then give the money up. No need to give NR any part of the quota, think of all the happy residents. Give up the 77% of the licences revenue.

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/About%20Us/Commission/WGFD-Revenue-Fact-Sheet_FINAL.pdf

 

[BuzzH]

So that’s thing, Buzz already established that WY doesn’t need any NR license fees. They can fund wildlife conservation through resident NGOs and volunteer work. You whiny NRs are really overplaying your funding hand once again. They don’t need your greatly exaggerated economic impact on the one week a year either. If you can’t vote in WY, then you don’t matter. End of story.

Here's what's going to happen...IMO.

Sheep, moose, goat, bison, full price LQ elk are going to go 90-10. Deer, pronghorn, and reduced priced tags will remain the same.

There will be zero revenue lost from elk. Zero revenue lost from Pronghorn, and Zero lose in deer revenue.

There will be a total of: $191,030 in lost revenue in tag sales.

To put things in perspective, we can raise Resident fishing licenses from $27-$30 and generate $222,540.

We can raise each Resident full priced big-game tag by $5 and generate $743,385.

We can raise NR doe/fawn pronghorn and deer from the absolutely ridiculously low price of $34/tag to $50 a tag (still wayyyyy too undervalued) and generate another $380,000.

Where's all this lost revenue?

 

[BuzzH]

Again it’s not as simple as 90/10 in this situation as the 34 pages of posts have nauseatingly noted.

But you know that already.

Opinions vary.

 

[tdhanses]

What I find funny is the residents saying move to xyz state and become a resident are the same residents complaining about people moving to their state. Truthfully I could move there and keep my current job, amazing what technology allows, no longer are we stuck to what a local job market has to offer. Only thing holding me back are kids and 50/50 custody.

Truthfully if not enough residents are getting tags, make them all OIL for all species and all or most LE units, reduce the NR opportunity to what you see is reasonable, if there aren’t enough tags for NR just remove them. If I think WY has the best resident op I will eventually buy a property and live there 7 months out of the year once my kids are in college.

If the feds ever sell public lands I hope we make it so everyone has a opportunity not just the energy entities, I’d love to own 1000+ acres of prime habitat in WY for only my family. It’s silly for the feds to just give the lands to the state, but once sold there will be additional property tax rev, maybe not much as most will become AG land and I’m sure the energy sector gets a good break.

 

[tdhanses]

Here's what's going to happen...IMO.

Sheep, moose, goat, bison, full price LQ elk are going to go 90-10. Deer, pronghorn, and reduced priced tags will remain the same.

There will be zero revenue lost from elk. Zero revenue lost from Pronghorn, and Zero lose in deer revenue.

There will be a total of: $191,030 in lost revenue in tag sales.

To put things in perspective, we can raise Resident fishing licenses from $27-$30 and generate $222,540.

We can raise each Resident full priced big-game tag by $5 and generate $743,385.

We can raise NR doe/fawn pronghorn and deer from the absolutely ridiculously low price of $34/tag to $50 a tag (still wayyyyy too undervalued) and generate another $380,000.

Where's all this lost revenue?

Why not double the resident fishing and hunting for all species? Would still be dang cheap and very affordable.

 

[tdhanses]

I think 10% gives you reasonable opportunity as a NR in Wyoming. Same as I feel when I apply in MT, ID, AZ, UT, CO, NV, etc.

It's reasonable, nothing to lose your cool about.

so all those states limit NR to 10%?

 

[BuzzH]

Why not double the resident fishing and hunting for all species? Would still be dang cheap and very affordable.

It will over time.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

I think 10% gives you reasonable opportunity as a NR in Wyoming. Same as I feel when I apply in MT, ID, AZ, UT, CO, NV, etc.

It's reasonable, nothing to lose your cool about.

When did CO go to 10% non resident? At least for elk it’s 20% for 6pt or more units and up to 35% for less than 6pt units. As a CO resident, it’s always amusing to be labeled a whiner by a WY resident.

 

[BuzzH]

so all those states limit NR to 10%?

For moose, sheep, goat, and bison...yes.

All but CO for LQ/LE Deer and Elk as well.

 

[Shooter264]

When did CO go to 10% non resident? At least for elk it’s 20% for 6pt or more units and up to 35% for less than 6pt units. As a CO resident, it’s always amusing to be labeled a whiner by a WY resident.

What percentage of sheep/moose/goat does Colorado give NR?

 

[tdhanses]

Almost hate to post this, as I'm sure someone will have a wisenheimer something to say about it.

First of all, I look at herd management. The conclusion I came to along time ago is that there really are not any herds that are managed at carrying capacity, they're managed for "objectives". Objectives and carrying capacity have NOTHING in common. In almost every case, herd objectives have everything to do with politics and landowner tolerance over anything close to actual carrying capacity.

I've worked and hunted a fair bit in 8-10 states the last 30 years. What I don't often see is habitat degradation due to wild ungulate populations. Have I seen it? Yes, usually in very local areas, but very rare.

So, when I have doe/cow tags, I try really hard to NEVER kill a doe with a fawn or a cow with a calf.

Hunters often make the claim that hunting is supposed to be about taking the "surplus". I try to do that very thing by taking the unproductive and older cows/does.

The reasons I do that are:

1. The "surplus" in a herd are NOT the healthiest young-middle aged animals. Those animals are the ones most likely to be survive a harsh winter, are in excellent health, and should have the opportunity to reproduce.

2. The surplus animals I look for are the ones that are older, least likely to survive the winter, meaning primarily the oldest or the youngest in the herd. I shy away from shooting fawns and calves, but will do it if I feel the upcoming winter or range conditions may not be that great and there's a good chance they wont make it.

So what I primarily look for are older does, older cows and try really hard to never shoot a doe/cow that has a fawn/calf. It's really not that hard to recognize when you're looking at an older cow or to recognize they likely don't have a calf. Same with does that have fawns.

It works about 80-85% of the time if you just take your time and watch a herd of elk or deer for a while. Dry cows are mostly out away from other elk, earlier in the year dry cows with be with a herd of raghorn bulls at times, cows with calves in early seasons, the calves are usually right close to their mothers, body size, physical condition etc.

The last 12 cows I've killed 11 were dry, most of them over 8 years old, some much older than that. Doesnt always work and I didnt always pay that kind of attention in the past. I get fooled once in a while, but not often.

Do the same with deer and pronghorn too.

The last cow/does I want to kill are the most productive, MY goal is to not reduce the productivity of a herd, its to take the surplus.

I don't care if others are less selective or not...but I like to think about what I'm doing when I press a trigger and how its impacting the wildlife.

I think most agree with your view on does and cows.

 

[BuzzH]

What percentage of sheep/moose/goat does Colorado give NR?

I haven't calculated the numbers lately, because I know its very low, but IIRC, it wasn't even 10%.

 

[tdhanses]

For moose, sheep, goat, and bison...yes.

All but CO for LQ/LE Deer and Elk as well.

Well really if one wants to hunt sheep and goat, BC is their best bet and can be done for a reasonable price, for moose AK and Canada are cheaper then most of the lower 48 and your not waiting 20+ years.

Truthfully I’m fine with 10% or even 0% for M, S, G and B. But to strip the quality elk, deer and antelope is where you’ll see most NR throw up a fight.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Here's what's going to happen...IMO.

Sheep, moose, goat, bison, full price LQ elk are going to go 90-10. Deer, pronghorn, and reduced priced tags will remain the same.

There will be zero revenue lost from elk. Zero revenue lost from Pronghorn, and Zero lose in deer revenue.

There will be a total of: $191,030 in lost revenue in tag sales.

To put things in perspective, we can raise Resident fishing licenses from $27-$30 and generate $222,540.

We can raise each Resident full priced big-game tag by $5 and generate $743,385.

We can raise NR doe/fawn pronghorn and deer from the absolutely ridiculously low price of $34/tag to $50 a tag (still wayyyyy too undervalued) and generate another $380,000.

Where's all this lost revenue?

Buzz, that sounds great, however, what if you went to 100 resident and no NR tags for all MSGB, elk and deer tags? Think about all the additional resident opportunity you could create? You touted earlier the substantial resident funded wildlife NGOs and how NRs overplay any benefit to wildlife they create through their NR licenses and overstated input to the WY economy. What harm is there in that? NRs can’t vote in WY and should be thankful they were ever even allowed to hunt in WY, right?

 

[slick]

^ yes we should be thankful to hunt in WY.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cnelk]

When did CO go to 10% non resident? At least for elk it’s 20% for 6pt or more units and up to 35% for less than 6pt units. As a CO resident, it’s always amusing to be labeled a whiner by a WY resident.

And out of the 65% for Residents, the CPW takes Landowner tags out of that 65% quota.
Which in turn means even LESS for the General Resident quota

[Note: Landowners can be NonRes too]

Colorado is OIL for Moose [Bulll]
Cow moose is unlimited

 

[Scottyboy]

Buzz is taking a “beating” in this thread but he has been as equally critical with his fellow WY residents when it comes to point sharing (or whatever it’s called). There was a fellow a year or so back named Sebastian, I forget his forum handle....Buzz basically told the world this guy (WY resident) was scum for what he was trying to do; which was use NR points in order to draw his tag and allow the NR the “opportunity” to pay a trespass fee to hunt.

I get this is a heated debate and buzz might seem to hate NR, but he really opened my eyes when he called out his fellow WY’er for being a POS.

 

[cnelk]

I know for a FACT that Buzz doesnt represent all the Wyo Residents - at least the ones I know

 

[YZF_88]

My biggest takeaway from this is the clear fact that all states WILL move the goalposts and if you are a NR, it won’t be in your favor. Burn your points and get out. I don’t even know if this bill even passed but between this year and next year, I will cash in my 9 antelope points, 13 elk points, and stop buying points for my son and daughter. We are just going for resident general tags in our home state from now on and we will make the most of our time together in the outdoors.

 

[BuzzH]

I know for a FACT that Buzz doesnt represent all the Wyo Residents - at least the ones I know

...and never said I do.

But, what I do have is a pretty wide loop of Resident buddies, who also have buddies and I know what the pulse is of a lot of the movers and shakers in the WY hunting circle. I know what Legislators, GF, and the task force are all hearing.

The NR's that are in denial, about 90-10 in some form passing in the very near future, have all been led to water.

Up to them how they want to deal with the truth...

This NR temper tantrum is just a case of lashing out, the most vocal know its going to happen and are lashing out the most.