Wyoming proposal to slash Non-resident hunters

[LostArra]

And out of the 65% for Residents, the CPW takes Landowner tags out of that 65% quota.
Which in turn means even LESS for the General Resident quota

[Note: Landowners can be NonRes too]

Colorado is OIL for Moose [Bulll]
Cow moose is unlimited

When comparing Wyo to other western states Buzz has conveniently skirted around transferable landowner tags.

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[wapitibob]

WY resident landowners draw before resident public, nr landowners draw before nr public, decrementing those from the original quotas.

Buzz has never been shy to comment on transferable tags.

 

[dirtytough]

Buzz is taking a “beating” in this thread but he has been as equally critical with his fellow WY residents when it comes to point sharing (or whatever it’s called). There was a fellow a year or so back named Sebastian, I forget his forum handle....Buzz basically told the world this guy (WY resident) was scum for what he was trying to do; which was use NR points in order to draw his tag and allow the NR the “opportunity” to pay a trespass fee to hunt.

I get this is a heated debate and buzz might seem to hate NR, but he really opened my eyes when he called out his fellow WY’er for being a POS.

Do you really believe what you just typed?

 

[Scottyboy]

Do you really believe what you just typed?

Yes, I really do believe buzz called out a fellow resident for being a piece of shit by trying to take advantage of NR hunters.

 

[dirtytough]

Yes, I really do believe buzz called out a fellow resident for being a piece of shit by trying to take advantage of NR hunters.

Please explain how a resident of Wyoming can use non res preference points?

 

[Scottyboy]

Please explain how a resident of Wyoming can use non res preference points?

It was something along the lines of point averaging where this guy would apply with your, say 10 points, as a group to get a tag.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

...and never said I do.

But, what I do have is a pretty wide loop of Resident buddies, who also have buddies and I know what the pulse is of a lot of the movers and shakers in the WY hunting circle. I know what Legislators, GF, and the task force are all hearing.

The NR's that are in denial, about 90-10 in some form passing in the very near future, have all been led to water.

Up to them how they want to deal with the truth...

This NR temper tantrum is just a case of lashing out, the most vocal know its going to happen and are lashing out the most.

Unfortunately Buzz prob has a pretty good feel for the mood in WY and while it was delayed, some form of 90/10 will be upon us in the future. NR opportunities will continue to decrease as they can’t vote.
That being said, labeling the concerns of NR hunters with time and money invested in the system as temper tantrums does indicate significant animus toward NR hunters. It seems that resident hunters like Buzz are completely unwilling to acknowledge any contribution NR hunters make to wildlife conservation in WY (78% of license revenue) or their economy, consistently downplaying those aspects. I assume by ignoring this fact, it makes it easier to decrease NR opportunity for premium hunts and increase fees. Non resident hunters also make an easy, politically expedient target, easy to blame. Politics decides the winners and the losers, in hunting politics NR are always gonna be the losers, just a matter of when and how much.

 

[dirtytough]

Oh gotcha. I’m just really curious how that works since residents don’t use preference points for antelope?

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, that sounds great, however, what if you went to 100 resident and no NR tags for all MSGB, elk and deer tags? Think about all the additional resident opportunity you could create? You touted earlier the substantial resident funded wildlife NGOs and how NRs overplay any benefit to wildlife they create through their NR licenses and overstated input to the WY economy. What harm is there in that? NRs can’t vote in WY and should be thankful they were ever even allowed to hunt in WY, right?

There is substantial Resident money spent on wildlife, above and beyond license fees. Not to mention the time spent meeting with Legislators, serving on task forces, talking to commissioners, attending commission meetings to ensure we even have wildlife to argue about.

Those things are NOT being done by NR hunters.

NR hunters spend more on license fees...as a NR hunter in many States, that's the cheapest and easiest thing I do for the advancement of wildlife.

I'll use the NR desert sheep as an example that I drew as a NR.

It's almost unbelievable that I was even allowed to apply for up to 10% of their desert sheep tags. I feel half guilty about drawing it and cutting checks for license fees and that $1400 or whatever it was for the tag, is a joke. In particular when I know good and well, that many Resident hunters there have spent an incredible amount of their volunteer hours to help those sheep, to come up with funding for guzzlers, volunteer countless hours of their time to help with transplanting sheep, muddling through the EA's to conduct desert sheep transplants, and dozens of dozens things I'm leaving out.

There is no way I'm going to trumpet on how I did so much for sheep there by paying a one time fee of $1400 to successfully hunt one. Or how as a NR I should be entitled to that because I fund a higher portion of a GF budget.

Its all crap...the fact I was even allowed to apply for such a rare tag, in a state where I'm not even a resident is really and truly unbelievable.

That's why I think its just ridiculous for NR's to trumpet on that paying NR fees is "going all out" for wildlife. Is it great NR help with the funding? Absolutely, but "going all out" are the Residents behind that scenes that do so much for the wildlife and for the hunters that never receive even close to the credit they deserve. Even more amazing is they still are willing to share some of the resource with NR's when doing so is likely robbing their own kids, grandkids, friends and neighbors from getting the opportunity to hunt things like moose, sheep, goat and bison.

That's a fact.

 

[Trial153]

#WY100/0

 

[Steve O]

Well really if one wants to hunt sheep and goat, BC is their best bet and can be done for a reasonable price, for moose AK and Canada are cheaper then most of the lower 48 and your not waiting 20+ years.

Truthfully I’m fine with 10% or even 0% for M, S, G and B. But to strip the quality elk, deer and antelope is where you’ll see most NR throw up a fight.

Most non residents are going to “throw up a fight” where it hurts them. I could care less about hunting elk every year. You obviously don’t care about going on a sheep hunt because in BC, if you could get into the country. They start at $25,000; they are NOT reasonable. Wyoming was where if I stayed in long enough I would draw a Bighorn tag. Been counting on that for a long time and losing that hope is going to hurt. That will be gone the moment this passes.

Well, on the bright side in about 10 years I will have 32+ resident points for sheep as we layover for a year or two on the way to Arizona.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

There is substantial Resident money spent on wildlife, above and beyond license fees. Not to mention the time spent meeting with Legislators, serving on task forces, talking to commissioners, attending commission meetings to ensure we even have wildlife to argue about.

Those things are NOT being done by NR hunters.

NR hunters spend more on license fees...as a NR hunter in many States, that's the cheapest and easiest thing I do for the advancement of wildlife.

I'll use the NR desert sheep as an example that I drew as a NR.

It's almost unbelievable that I was even allowed to apply for up to 10% of their desert sheep tags. I feel half guilty about drawing it and cutting checks for license fees and that $1400 or whatever it was for the tag, is a joke. In particular when I know good and well, that many Resident hunters there have spent an incredible amount of their volunteer hours to help those sheep, to come up with funding for guzzlers, volunteer countless hours of their time to help with transplanting sheep, muddling through the EA's to conduct desert sheep transplants, and dozens of dozens things I'm leaving out.

There is no way I'm going to trumpet on how I did so much for sheep there by paying a one time fee of $1400 to successfully hunt one. Or how as a NR I should be entitled to that because I fund a higher portion of a GF budget.

Its all crap...the fact I was even allowed to apply for such a rare tag, in a state where I'm not even a resident is really and truly unbelievable.

That's why I think its just ridiculous for NR's to trumpet on that paying NR fees is "going all out" for wildlife. Is it great NR help with the funding? Absolutely, but "going all out" are the Residents behind that scenes that do so much for the wildlife and for the hunters that never receive even close to the credit they deserve. Even more amazing is they still are willing to share some of the resource with NR's when doing so is likely robbing their own kids, grandkids, friends and neighbors from getting the opportunity to hunt things like moose, sheep, goat and bison.

That's a fact.

Ok, so you are completely on board with WY going 100/0 for MSGB, elk and deer? If I followed your logic correctly, that is the fair, appropriate solution. If you eliminated NR licenses and PP, would WY GF be able to operate at the same level and support wildlife conservation in the same manner? Honest question.

I understand your desert sheep example however it is quite anecdotal considering they make up such a minor portion of the western big game landscape. You clearly hit the lottery on that one as a NR, great for you, but most NR hunters are more clearly focused on elk/deer opportunities. I think that’s what drives most of their temper tantrums and whining.

I don’t think any NRs were trumpeting anything or claiming they are “going all out” for WY. Did it ever occur to you that those whiney, entitled NR hunters might be engaged in supporting wildlife in their homes state? At some point you criticized NR hunters because you didn’t see any NR plates at conservation org meetings in WY like RMEF. Well yeah, cause they are probably at their local RMEF meeting in places like CO or PA or TX, where they should be.

Easiest contribution..... yes. Cheapest contribution...... probably not, but hard to quantify and will differ by individual.

 

[Steve O]

Yes, I really do believe buzz called out a fellow resident for being a piece of shit by trying to take advantage of NR hunters.

You have just about that whole situation wrong FWIW.

 

[Scottyboy]

You have just about that whole situation wrong FWIW.

I will accept that and admit it to be true as it was several years ago and I apparently Can’t keep up with the internet:

Wyoming with Nine PP

So, time has gotten away from me over the last several years and I find myself with nine points for Wyoming pronghorns and no idea where to use them. I started accruing points back in the “BB” (of Bowsite fame) days of allowing hunters to travel out with him for basically a semi-guided hunt...

www.rokslide.com

 

[Billinsd]

After what AZ did to NRs several years ago, everything pales in comparison or totally jaded me. I disappointingly, realize any state can change the rules at anytime. I'm still in for AZ and NV deer and elk, CA I drew elk and desert sheep, should draw deer soon, CO I'm out, except for one plains deer hunt, and I'll think hard about WY and MT for deer and elk that I just started, so nothing invested.

 

[BuzzH]

Ok, so you are completely on board with WY going 100/0 for MSGB, elk and deer? If I followed your logic correctly, that is the fair, appropriate solution. If you eliminated NR licenses and PP, would WY GF be able to operate at the same level and support wildlife conservation in the same manner? Honest question.

I understand your desert sheep example however it is quite anecdotal considering they make up such a minor portion of the western big game landscape. You clearly hit the lottery on that one as a NR, great for you, but most NR hunters are more clearly focused on elk/deer opportunities. I think that’s what drives most of their temper tantrums and whining.

I don’t think any NRs were trumpeting anything or claiming they are “going all out” for WY. Did it ever occur to you that those whiney, entitled NR hunters might be engaged in supporting wildlife in their homes state? At some point you criticized NR hunters because you didn’t see any NR plates at conservation org meetings in WY like RMEF. Well yeah, cause they are probably at their local RMEF meeting in places like CO or PA or TX, where they should be.

Easiest contribution..... yes. Cheapest contribution...... probably not, but hard to quantify and will differ by individual.

Stay on topic....this is about 90-10, not 100-0.

I'm on board with 90-10 for MSGB and LQ elk in Wyoming.

I'm fine with leaving reduced priced tag EDP, and full price deer and pronghorn at current splits. I'm also fine with leaving 7,250 full priced NR elk tags in the initial draw in regulation as well.

It has occurred to me that Residents in every state look out and do more for wildlife in the states they live in. THE precise reason why I'm fine with them keeping 90% of the opportunity for themselves. It only makes one thing, and that's sense.

It's just that simple.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Hopefully the outfitters raise holy hell.

Dear Sportsman,

Wyoming Senator Larry Hicks has filed Senate File 103, a 90/10 license allocation and fee increase bill that would be devastating to your ability to draw a Wyoming big game hunting license in the future.

We need your help to contact members of the Senate Travel, Recreation and Wildlife Committee as soon as possible to share your opposition to the bill and how it would impact your ability to hunt in Wyoming. The bill will be heard by the committee at 8 a.m. on Thursday, March 4, 2021.

Please keep your messages focused and specific to how this appalling bill will hurt your future plans to hunt in Wyoming. Please let the senators know that you have made a financial investment in preference points and license fees and remind the Senators of the positive economic impact nonresident hunters, like yourself, brings to Wyoming.

Thank you for taking the time to reach out to these Wyoming Legislators it is critical they hear from you and how a 50 percent reduction in licenses would affect your ability to hunt and Wyoming’s economy.

The Senators are listed below:

Chairwoman Affie Ellis (Cheyenne) [email protected]
Senator Mike Gierau (Jackson) [email protected]
Senator Tim Salazar (Dubois) [email protected]
Senator Bill Landen (Casper) [email protected]
Senator Wendy Schuler (Evantson) [email protected]


Sincerely,

Sy Gilliland, President
Wyoming Outfitters & Guides Association
PO Box 2650
Casper, WY 82602
[email protected]
wyoga.org
307.265.2376

Sy Gilliland cares about Sy Gilliland and his outfitting business. He doesn't give two sheets about DIY non resident or resident hunters. He wants special treatment and opportunities for his paying customers. Don't fall for this BS from this jerk.

 

[JFK]

Stay on topic....this is about 90-10, not 100-0.

I'm on board with 90-10 for MSGB and LQ elk in Wyoming.

I'm fine with leaving reduced priced tag EDP, and full price deer and pronghorn at current splits. I'm also fine with leaving 7,250 full priced NR elk tags in the initial draw in regulation as well.

It has occurred to me that Residents in every state look out and do more for wildlife in the states they live in. THE precise reason why I'm fine with them keeping 90% of the opportunity for themselves. It only makes one thing, and that's sense.

It's just that simple.

I realize you didn’t write the legislation, but do you know why it wasn’t phrased this way in SF0103 last week? I know that many NR are heavily invested in moose, goat, sheep and bison pp’s, however I can also see the residents point of view for the 90/10 arguement here. They are maybe once or twice in a lifetime hunts and in very high demand, so no one is going to be happy under any allocation scheme. I guess where I got hung up on this bill as a NR was how drastically it would have impacted elk, deer and especially antelope. I look at draw odds often for those species. Sometimes I’ll look at resident draw odds for units I’m interested in hunting just to see if it typically fills or if many tags roll over. Damn near every time, the unit I’m looking at has 100% draw odds (or close to it) for residents. As it should be, and I’m totally in favor of residents getting the biggest cut and first crack at everything. These aren’t super high point units but they also aren’t crap. Typical 3-6 point units with 100% draw odds for residents, every single year.

My point is that it doesn’t make a ton of sense (to me) to curtail NR tags in units where non-residents are drawing with 100% odds year after year. Who does it benefit to do that? No gain to residents as they are already getting their tags, and the NR gets hammered by point creep with fewer getting out to hunt.

If something is coming, I believe they could do better than SF0103 by being a little more surgical in their approach, versus slash and burn of all tags for all species in all units.

 

[cnelk]

^^^ Great post JFK

Buzz will probably respond that WY residents should get 101%

 

[100percent]

The states manage the wildlife not the land. Unless it’s state land

By limiting NR the states are accomplishing what they should. Providing their residents with what they want. You are owed nothing by a state you are not a resident of.

Private land is better because the land is managed better not the animals. Animals are still managed by the state.

Corb, can’t agree with you here! The State may set the rules but, private land has the ability to manage the resource better than the state ever could (and usually does). Very similar to your thoughts on states managing federal land at a higher level than the feds ever could.

As much as I enjoy stirring the pot on these types of topics, mainly trying to get BuzzH stirred up so he can display how much of a arrogant a$$hole he is and he hardly ever disappoints. I don’t think the 90/10 split is the end of the world as long as we keep getting to roll over tags. I could do without the price increase though, but it is the trend across the board. Maybe it is death by a thousand cuts, time will tell.
I plan on staying the course on my hunt plans and just evaluate after I burn points if it is worth while getting back in. The sad thing is it’s never going to get cheaper and tags are never going to get easier to get.

I wouldn't say that is fair representation. 1 dude doesn't make up a whole organization.

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if you really feel that way, you MUST tell Buzz, immediately!!! He missed a real good __-whipping at some point in his lifetime.

This looks like a class action lawsuit waiting to happen with all the vested point holders out there! However, I’m sure the fine print will hold WY harmless.