Wyoming proposal to slash Non-resident hunters

[204guy]

I think Buzz is sitting in his recliner laughing his ass off.

No kidding, after this failed I thought the incessant whining and irrational logic might die off, guess not.

 

[wapitibob]

...

Answer honestly. If you were a non resident with money/points invested in this would you be upset ?

I'm a NR with money and points invested and am nowhere near upset. 20%-25% quotas were set long ago and the landscape has changed. Bumping NR S/M points to $150 really put a wrench into the works.
M/S should have been random and OIL since the beginning. 90/10 should have been implemented when they started nr points and we'd all be skating along fat, happy, and none the wiser.

 

[BuzzH]

Go for it. Go to 100% for residents. See how that works for you.

What have YOU come up for a solution other than bitch about how this is going to impact YOU and threatening to support PLT if you don't get your way.

You and others carry on about the NAM and how its all going down the drain...not one single ounce of effort have you put into a solution.

Congratulations, bitching is easy.

Get the various other States that are offering from 0-up to 10% of their LQ tags to start offering quota's similar to Wyoming's.

It makes ZERO sense for Wyoming Residents to expect to be treated any differently until they're afforded a higher percentage of NR tags where they apply as NR's. It makes ZERO sense for NR's crying about Residents wanting to be treated the same as where their alligator tears are hitting the floor. Let other States share more/some of the burden of getting new, old, etc. hunters into the fold and becoming advocates for wildlife, hunting, and public lands.

Either get the other states to the table and we can all work together to increase NR opportunity across the board, or, quit crying when Wyoming expects 90% of their tags like every other State's Residents.

For the record, Colorado is in the same boat as Wyoming and the good old days of unlimited OTC elk tags is going to be over, and rightly so for a lot of very good reasons. I fully expect this same discussion/whine fest is coming to CO real soon.

 

[Fatcamp]

I think Buzz is sitting in his recliner laughing his ass off.

Ya, that's kind of what trolls do. It's the whole point.

 

[Trial153]

What have YOU come up for a solution other than bitch about how this is going to impact YOU and threatening to support PLT if you don't get your way.

You and others carry on about the NAM and how its all going down the drain...not one single ounce of effort have you put into a solution.

Congratulations, bitching is easy.

Get the various other States that are offering from 0-up to 10% of their LQ tags to start offering quota's similar to Wyoming's.

It makes ZERO sense for Wyoming Residents to expect to be treated any differently until they're afforded a higher percentage of NR tags where they apply as NR's. It makes ZERO sense for NR's crying about Residents wanting to be treated the same as where their alligator tears are hitting the floor. Let other States share more/some of the burden of getting new, old, etc. hunters into the fold and becoming advocates for wildlife, hunting, and public lands.

Either get the other states to the table and we can all work together to increase NR opportunity across the board, or, quit crying when Wyoming expects 90% of their tags like every other State's Residents.

For the record, Colorado is in the same boat as Wyoming and the good old days of unlimited OTC elk tags is going to be over, and rightly so for a lot of very good reasons. I fully expect this same discussion/whine fest is coming to CO real soon.

Come one big mouth. If 90/10 is great...100/0 is even better.
Go for it, or STF and stop telling us your doing the rest of the hunters a favor by LeTTinG us have 10% of the tags while we pay 80% of your license fees.
Go 100%. Start a movement

 

[BuzzH]

Answer honestly. If you were a non resident with money/points invested in this would you be upset ?

No, because its already happened to me in CO, MT, NM, AZ, UT...etc.

I'm smart enough to know what I was buying was NOT a tag, NOT an opportunity to hunt...it was points to increase my chances of drawing a tag. It was never a promise of a tag.

I'm also smart enough to realize that allocations, point systems and other hunting related issues are within the purview of that States Residents. Not my pig, not my farm...I'm a guest and feel fortunate they offer me a chance to even apply for tags they're willing to share with a NR. They don't owe me a thing...nothing.

When the States I apply in have changed allocations, reduced NR quota's, etc....I just make adjustments in application strategy.

Not bitter about it at all...that's called life. Some deal with it, some don't.

 

[BuzzH]

Come one big mouth. If 90/10 is great...100/0 is even better.
Go for it, or STF and stop telling us your doing the rest of the hunters a favor by LeTTinG us have 10% of the tags while we pay 80% of your license fees.
Go 100%. Start a movement.

Just what I expected...no solution, only tears...and lies.

 

[Trial153]

Just what I expected...no solution, only tears...and lies.

Go for 100%. Prove to us all how residents of WY like yourself are willing to foot the whole bill.

Go for it. You can get 50 tags a year and post pictures of them on here. Next time stand behind them on the table like a grip and grin.

 

[Ten Bears]

No, because its already happened to me in CO, MT, NM, AZ, UT...etc.

I'm smart enough to know what I was buying was NOT a tag, NOT an opportunity to hunt...it was points to increase my chances of drawing a tag. It was never a promise of a tag.

I'm also smart enough to realize that allocations, point systems and other hunting related issues are within the purview of that States Residents. Not my pig, not my farm...I'm a guest and feel fortunate they offer me a chance to even apply for tags they're willing to share with a NR. They don't owe me a thing...nothing.

When the States I apply in have changed allocations, reduced NR quota's, etc....I just make adjustments in application strategy.

Not bitter about it at all...that's called life. Some deal with it, some don't.

You are seriously the most full of shi” person I have experienced on here.

It’s hard to even have a rational discussion with you because of your inability to be honest or to cut your schtick off. It’s tiring.

It’s a shame that you have the position you do in BHA and quite frankly people like you are the reason I am a former member.

 

[slick]

Well that took a turn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stonewall]

All's I know, being from one of the more reviled areas of the NR landscape (TX), I pretty much depend on applications in the western states for hunting. I think that's true for most of us in states without much public land. I'd love to move to Wyoming, but family > hunting for me....so that means staying in Texas. I personally don't apply for sheep/moose/goat just because of draws odds. Hopefully elk and pronghorn remain attainable for several years to come.

 

[BuzzH]

You are seriously the most full of shi” person I have experienced on here.

It’s hard to even have a rational discussion with you because of your inability to be honest or to cut your schtick off. It’s tiring.

Why's that?

I've never once thought a State I've applied as for NR tags in the last 22-23 years has owed me a tag. Points, no points, reducing NR quota's, charging higher applications, not forcing applicants to front the money, charging more for points, going to squared bonus points, not allowing NR's to apply for RFW tags, changing allocations...and the list goes on and on.

All those things have changed in States I still apply in every year.

I'm under no delusion thinking that I wont be dying with hundreds of bonus points...and I'm not going to whine, stomp my feet, or throw my sucker in the dirt that those states "owe me a tag, I have invested money". Or that I'm going to quit advocating and paying for wildlife and public lands because I don't get my way.

The way I look at it is, I want to invest on the front end of a tag (buying required licenses, paying for points, etc.) so that wildlife is funded properly. That way, IF I do get lucky in the draw, I'll get to enjoy a quality experience. If not, oh well, someone has to pay for wildlife management, I don't mind it being me even if I'm not the direct beneficiary.

Sad to say, damn few hunters view it that way...most feel entitlement to a tag and demand a tag.

 

[stonewall]

I also like to hunt for very specific antlerless animals with those tags as well. If I don't find the right one, I let them walk...no different than I do with antlered/horned game.

What are you looking for in antlerless? I was always under the impression that antlerless is antlerless from a management perspective, whether that be a young or mature animal. (other than the lead cow theory in regards to elk)

 

[BuzzH]

All's I know, being from one of the more reviled areas of the NR landscape (TX), I pretty much depend on applications in the western states for hunting. I think that's true for most of us in states without much public land. I'd love to move to Wyoming, but family > hunting for me....so that means staying in Texas. I personally don't apply for sheep/moose/goat just because of draws odds. Hopefully elk and pronghorn remain attainable for several years to come.

For a long time...you're in good shape. Residents realize that introducing people to Wyoming hunting, R3, and all that other stuff happens with mainly elk, deer and pronghorn tags. Like I said, you're in good shape and will be for a long time.

Trust me those crying the most/loudest are those who think they're "owed" a sheep or moose tag because they've bought preference points.

Sheep, moose, goat and bison is going 90-10.

 

[Ten Bears]

Why's that?

I've never once thought a State I've applied as for NR tags in the last 22-23 years has owed me a tag. Points, no points, reducing NR quota's, charging higher applications, not forcing applicants to front the money, charging more for points, going to squared bonus points, not allowing NR's to apply for RFW tags, changing allocations...and the list goes on and on.

All those things have changed in States I still apply in every year.

I'm under no delusion thinking that I wont be dying with hundreds of bonus points...and I'm not going to whine, stomp my feet, or throw my sucker in the dirt that those states "owe me a tag, I have invested money". Or that I'm going to quit advocating and paying for wildlife and public lands because I don't get my way.

The way I look at it is, I want to invest on the front end of a tag (buying required licenses, paying for points, etc.) so that wildlife is funded properly. That way, IF I do get lucky in the draw, I'll get to enjoy a quality experience. If not, oh well, someone has to pay for wildlife management, I don't mind it being me even if I'm not the direct beneficiary.

Sad to say, damn few hunters view it that way...most feel entitlement to a tag and demand a tag.

I never once said I demand a tag. NOT ONCE.

you have ignored so many peoples valid arguments on here and continued with whataboutism or pick what part of the argument easily fits your view.

nearly every NR on this thread has continually mentioned they don’t mind paying their share. as they have for years. that’s never been the issue, you know this. so save me the fund the wildlife angle. we are all on board with that, always have been.

we ask for reasonable opportunity and what we have been sold. that is all. it would be nice to actually have a real conversation with someone as involved as you in Wyoming wildlife politics that doesn’t involve your typical ridiculous behavior.

I am not throwing a tantrum or tossing my sucker in the ground. That’s exactly what YOU have been doing on this thread and in general for your entire forum existence. When you don’t get your way, you disappear for weeks. Only to reappear to troll or say some backhanded comments.

 

[String&stick]

Ha I've been telling my buddy with 8 PTS for moose and sheep that he would be better off saving that money for a guided hunt than wasting them in those points.

I would be more than happy to compromise and give ALL, moose, sheep, and mt. Goat tags, to residents save for 1 from each species to be raffled each year at $100 a ticket with unlimited tickets IF I knew we could leave deer, elk, and antelope alone or slight modifications.

I think everyone needs a deep breath, and if you're a non resident, use the emails provided to contact the appropriate members of the task force. Being someone that has sat on committees recieving public opinion I can tell you this, it is very easy to ignore and delete whiny, unconstructive emails. . . Use something along these lines when contacting people if you want to be heard.

1. Acknowledge the problem (residents want more tags and they see it as fair compared to other western states)

2. Present your problem ( you feel non residents bought into a system and now it's being changed harming you)

3. Present your idea for solutions or ways to help both parties, or minimize damage to your view point.

4. Humbly acknowledge your non resident status and appreciate any input they accept from you.

5. Offer your contact info for further conversation.

I doubt the majority of the task force wants to intentionally harm/piss off non residents, that's no how they are looking at it. They want to help residents, and resident kids keep enjoying the lifestyle they live in their home state. . .

So present ideas for solutions or at least politely outline your concerns. If your main goal is to go full Karen tell them off, just have a few more beers and sleep it off!

PSA complete!

 

[BuzzH]

What are you looking for in antlerless? I was always under the impression that antlerless is antlerless from a management perspective, whether that be a young or mature animal. (other than the lead cow theory in regards to elk)

Almost hate to post this, as I'm sure someone will have a wisenheimer something to say about it.

First of all, I look at herd management. The conclusion I came to along time ago is that there really are not any herds that are managed at carrying capacity, they're managed for "objectives". Objectives and carrying capacity have NOTHING in common. In almost every case, herd objectives have everything to do with politics and landowner tolerance over anything close to actual carrying capacity.

I've worked and hunted a fair bit in 8-10 states the last 30 years. What I don't often see is habitat degradation due to wild ungulate populations. Have I seen it? Yes, usually in very local areas, but very rare.

So, when I have doe/cow tags, I try really hard to NEVER kill a doe with a fawn or a cow with a calf.

Hunters often make the claim that hunting is supposed to be about taking the "surplus". I try to do that very thing by taking the unproductive and older cows/does.

The reasons I do that are:

1. The "surplus" in a herd are NOT the healthiest young-middle aged animals. Those animals are the ones most likely to be survive a harsh winter, are in excellent health, and should have the opportunity to reproduce.

2. The surplus animals I look for are the ones that are older, least likely to survive the winter, meaning primarily the oldest or the youngest in the herd. I shy away from shooting fawns and calves, but will do it if I feel the upcoming winter or range conditions may not be that great and there's a good chance they wont make it.

So what I primarily look for are older does, older cows and try really hard to never shoot a doe/cow that has a fawn/calf. It's really not that hard to recognize when you're looking at an older cow or to recognize they likely don't have a calf. Same with does that have fawns.

It works about 80-85% of the time if you just take your time and watch a herd of elk or deer for a while. Dry cows are mostly out away from other elk, earlier in the year dry cows with be with a herd of raghorn bulls at times, cows with calves in early seasons, the calves are usually right close to their mothers, body size, physical condition etc.

The last 12 cows I've killed 11 were dry, most of them over 8 years old, some much older than that. Doesnt always work and I didnt always pay that kind of attention in the past. I get fooled once in a while, but not often.

Do the same with deer and pronghorn too.

The last cow/does I want to kill are the most productive, MY goal is to not reduce the productivity of a herd, its to take the surplus.

I don't care if others are less selective or not...but I like to think about what I'm doing when I press a trigger and how its impacting the wildlife.

 

[BuzzH]

I never once said I demand a tag. NOT ONCE.

you have ignored so many peoples valid arguments on here and continued with whataboutism or pick what part of the argument easily fits your view.

nearly every NR on this thread has continually mentioned they don’t mind paying their share. as they have for years. that’s never been the issue, you know this. so save me the fund the wildlife angle. we are all on board with that, always have been.

we ask for reasonable opportunity and what we have been sold. that is all. it would be nice to actually have a real conversation with someone as involved as you in Wyoming wildlife politics that doesn’t involve your typical ridiculous behavior.

I am not throwing a tantrum or tossing my sucker in the ground. That’s exactly what YOU have been doing on this thread and in general for your entire forum existence. When you don’t get your way, you disappear for weeks. Only to reappear to troll or say some backhanded comments.

I think 10% gives you reasonable opportunity as a NR in Wyoming. Same as I feel when I apply in MT, ID, AZ, UT, CO, NV, etc.

It's reasonable, nothing to lose your cool about.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Come one big mouth. If 90/10 is great...100/0 is even better.
Go for it, or STF and stop telling us your doing the rest of the hunters a favor by LeTTinG us have 10% of the tags while we pay 80% of your license fees.
Go 100%. Start a movement

So that’s thing, Buzz already established that WY doesn’t need any NR license fees. They can fund wildlife conservation through resident NGOs and volunteer work. You whiny NRs are really overplaying your funding hand once again. They don’t need your greatly exaggerated economic impact on the one week a year either. If you can’t vote in WY, then you don’t matter. End of story.

 

[Ten Bears]

I think 10% gives you reasonable opportunity as a NR in Wyoming. Same as I feel when I apply in MT, ID, AZ, UT, CO, NV, etc.

It's reasonable, nothing to lose your cool about.

Again it’s not as simple as 90/10 in this situation as the 34 pages of posts have nauseatingly noted.

But you know that already.