Wyoming Corner Crossing defense fund

[wind gypsy]

Hate to say it, but the reason why the rich landowner is suing them for legal fees is to bankrupt them. Force them out of the race. This guy will write off the lawsuit as a business expense, it will cost him “nothing” yet he sues them anyway... Without a wealthy backer for the guys who corner crossed, they will be out gunned by attornys out of their league, and pushed into a legal corner they cant afford.

Happened to my family in a different setting, cost us everything, cost the bank nothing, even though we won. A$$hole judge didnt reimburse my family legal fees for the win, and we arent rich. In other countries the loser pays legal fees, not here.

Contributed what I could, but you can tell my opinion of whats going to happen, which is not what I want to happen…

This is what I fear as well. Hopefully they can avoid that without settling. Some of Buzz's input gives me hope though. Sounds like a number of attorneys have offered to assist pro-bono.

Regardless, its a real bad look for people like Esheler in the public eye to file a suit for trespassing damages from touching airspace for a brief moment (damages are-non-existent) and then threaten the real weight of damages which is his attorney fees to file said bullshit suit. This whole thing is bringing a lot of attention on how crooked the elected officials are in favoring these few ultra wealthy over the majority. It's not even like he's part of some community staple multiple generation ranching family. He's an absentee billionaire who lives in North Carolina.

 

[ben h]

Countries that have loser pay attorney fees have a double edged sword. It more or less prevents people of lesser means to sue wealthier people or businesses because of the repercussions for getting in legal battles with them, if they loose, even if they do have legitimate cases. In the US loser paying fees as far as I know is either written into contracts, or from pretty egregious actions and is difficult to get. In this case I don't see how the land owner suffered any damages that weren't of his own creation. The gov did all the enforcement and prosecution. True the land owner probably wasted a lot of time on the case, but he didn't need to. This whole case seems stupid to me and land owners are just taking advantage and keeping people off public land for their own advantage. I hope the voters in the area remember these sorts of things come election time. Fred might be able to donate a lot of political $ to elected officials and get preferential treatment, but he can't buy the election.

 

[jmez]

I'm sure the landowner is quite amused with their $60,0000 go fund me pot!

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[Bighorner]

There is a lot more to this than just the dollars in that go fund me. There has been real attention brought to the corner crossing issue.

If this was all over but the crying, politicians wouldn't be bringing bills to undermine a potentially favorable outcome for the general public. There are people out there that are sweating this. People who have locked up public land stand to lose a lot and there is no dout they will put up a fight.

On the other hand there has been a pretty large majority that is feed up.

 

[Billinsd]

I just ran across it on a Facebook post and donated $25. It keeps going around and around. I hope the guys get off on all charges and the accusers and prosecutors get their just desserts!

 

[Marble]

Man if they win this, I can see it now…. Rokslide threads:

Whats the best pack for a fence ladder?
Best ladder for corner crossing?
Ultralight ladder for corner crossing?
Trekking pole ladder?
Pole vault for fence corner?

If the public cannot access public land, then is it public?? Touching a tiny piece of air of private land is akin to pissing in the wind. Might be a whole lot of suing for easements to be put in for access if this goes through too.

I won't need a ladder. Ill carry an expandable pole and pole vault that sucker!

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[dieselchessy]

For the pole vaulters; how does a person pole vault while carrying a loaded pack?

Wyoming needs section line easements, or at least public corner easements.

 

[Moserkr]

This case succeeding would set precedent that could be used nationwide, so its a big deal. Id expect the landowner to exhaust a lot of resources fighting it though. Glad some good lawyers are working pro bono. A lot of respect to those who fight for what is right.

 

[wind gypsy]

This whole thing has exposed so much. The huge sway of money in the application of our laws and government. How government is prone to work on behalf of the big money interests over the good of the most. The acts of Politicians, Eshelman (and his like), and G&F commissioners have exposed some ugly, we need to continue to make others aware.

• Hunters go hunting on checkerboarded area of public land. Go out of their way to never step foot on private land.
• Ranch employees harass hunters throughout the duration of their hunt. Interfere with their hunt. Drive following them on BLM land (legality unknown based on coverage thus far).
• Sheriffs dept officers and game warden spend considerable time discussing the situation with ranch manager and hunters
  • Game warden states it is not a hunting offense to corner cross
  • Sheriffs officer says county attorney will not prosecute corner cross
  • Sheriffs body cam records ranch manager asking sheriff if they understand how much money the landowner has and how much land he has
• Billionaire absentee landowner Fred Eshelman calls county attorney office repeatedly (rumored) until the sheriffs who were sure that the "county attorney doesn't prosecute corner crossing" were instructed to cite hunters for corner crossing
• Despite abundant evidence, no hunter harassment charges have been filed. Instead, the county doubles down with additional charges of “trespassing to hunt”
• Eshelman files a civil suit seeking repayment “to the fullest extent of the law,” for attorneys’ fees, costs and expenses incurred in the litigation.
  • I can’t fathom what the damages could be from a shoulder or arm passing through airspace of an open uninhabited corner of a 22k acre ranch, but the costs for Eshelmans attorneys to file suit on a trespass with these non-existent damages I’m sure are quite high.
  • It’s clear he’s trying to make common hunters fear for their financial security at the highest level for for these seemingly non-existent damages.
• Meanwhile, politicians clamor to find a way to keep themselves and the select few people like Non-resident Eshelman from giving up their exclusive free access to the public’s resources with new bills with language crafted in a way that they can try to claim they are not about corner crossing.
• G&F commission president pulls BHA’s commissioner tag so he doesn’t appear to be supporting hunters accessing public land over large landowners claiming it for themselves
• Organizations like TRCP and Wyoming Wildlife Federation wont take a stance on what is a fairly clear cut issue because they are afraid it will result in them losing cooperation with large land owners in conservation projects, legislature retaliation, and loss of their own commissioner tags. Based on what has happened thus far, their fears seem well founded! It's rumored they have been instructed by lobbyists to stay away from the corner crossing issue.
  • This brings up more stink about the use of commissioners tags at all

 

[Slugz]

Wind Gypsy thats a great synopsis. FYI I copied parts and used it in my correspondence to Congresswoman Cheney.

 

[Bighorner]

This whole thing has exposed so much. The huge sway of money in the application of our laws and government. How government is prone to work on behalf of the big money interests over the good of the most. The acts of Politicians, Eshelman (and his like), and G&F commissioners have exposed some ugly, we need to continue to make others aware.

• Hunters go hunting on checkerboarded area of public land. Go out of their way to never step foot on private land.
• Ranch employees harass hunters throughout the duration of their hunt. Interfere with their hunt. Drive following them on BLM land (legality unknown based on coverage thus far).
• Sheriffs dept officers and game warden spend considerable time discussing the situation with ranch manager and hunters
  • Game warden states it is not a hunting offense to corner cross
  • Sheriffs officer says county attorney will not prosecute corner cross
  • Sheriffs body cam records ranch manager asking sheriff if they understand how much money the landowner has and how much land he has
• Billionaire absentee landowner Fred Eshelman calls county attorney office repeatedly until the sheriffs who were sure that the "county attorney doesn't prosecute corner crossing" were instructed to cite hunters for corner crossing
• Despite abundant evidence, no hunter harassment charges have been filed. Instead, the county doubles down with another charge of “trespassing to hunt”
• Eshelman files a civil suit seeking repayment “to the fullest extent of the law,” for attorneys’ fees, costs and expenses incurred in the litigation, the civil suit states.
  • I can’t fathom what the damages could be from a shoulder or arm passing through airspace in an open uninhabited corner but the costs for Eshelmans attorneys to file suit on a trespass with these non-existent damages I’m sure are quite high.
  • It’s clear he’s trying to make common hunters fear for their financial security at the highest level for daring to have a shoulder temporarily move through a corner of airspace on a 22,000 acre ranch.
• Meanwhile, politicians clamor to find a way to keep themselves and the select few people like Non-resident Eshelman from giving up their exclusive free access to the public’s resources with new bills with language crafted in a way that they can try to claim they are not about corner crossing.
• G&F commission president pulls BHA’s commissioner tag so he doesn’t appear to be supporting hunters accessing public land over large landowners claiming it for themselves
• Organizations like TRCP and Wyoming Wildlife Federation wont take a stance on what is a fairly clear cut issue because they are afraid it will result in them losing cooperation with large land owners in conservation projects, legislature retaliation, and loss of their own commissioner tags. Based on what has happened thus far, their fears seem well founded! It's rumored they have been instructed by lobbyists to stay away from the corner crossing issue.
  • This brings up more stink about the use of commissioners tags at all

Well said

 

[Spence1875]

I am going to give $50 bucks. This whole think is obscene.

 

[dpat]

On the trespassing to Hunt charge could the landowner sue the hunters for the cost of an outfitted hunt they provide on the ranch? I'm thinking I've heard about this being done somewhere could be the reason for the additional charge.

The landowner is going to fight this tooth and nail to protect the value of his ranch (and other large landowners in Wyoming in the same situation will also) because control of the public greatly increases the value. I think it's wrong to deny access and I hope the hunters win but it's gonna be a long uphill battle to win.

The easiest way for the landowners to come out on top is for them to get the legislature to pass a bill outlawing it and take all the vagueness out of the laws around it now. Hope not but the landowners in Wyoming seem to have lots of say in how things are done there.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Did what I could.
Hope its victorious.

 

[Marble]

For the pole vaulters; how does a person pole vault while carrying a loaded pack?

Wyoming needs section line easements, or at least public corner easements.

I work out bro...I can climb 60,000 vertical feet with any pack.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[dieselchessy]

This whole thing has exposed so much. The huge sway of money in the application of our laws and government. How government is prone to work on behalf of the big money interests over the good of the most. The acts of Politicians, Eshelman (and his like), and G&F commissioners have exposed some ugly, we need to continue to make others aware.

• Hunters go hunting on checkerboarded area of public land. Go out of their way to never step foot on private land.
• Ranch employees harass hunters throughout the duration of their hunt. Interfere with their hunt. Drive following them on BLM land (legality unknown based on coverage thus far).
• Sheriffs dept officers and game warden spend considerable time discussing the situation with ranch manager and hunters
  • Game warden states it is not a hunting offense to corner cross
  • Sheriffs officer says county attorney will not prosecute corner cross
  • Sheriffs body cam records ranch manager asking sheriff if they understand how much money the landowner has and how much land he has
• Billionaire absentee landowner Fred Eshelman calls county attorney office repeatedly until the sheriffs who were sure that the "county attorney doesn't prosecute corner crossing" were instructed to cite hunters for corner crossing
• Despite abundant evidence, no hunter harassment charges have been filed. Instead, the county doubles down with another charge of “trespassing to hunt”
• Eshelman files a civil suit seeking repayment “to the fullest extent of the law,” for attorneys’ fees, costs and expenses incurred in the litigation.
  • I can’t fathom what the damages could be from a shoulder or arm passing through airspace in an open uninhabited corner but the costs for Eshelmans attorneys to file suit on a trespass with these non-existent damages I’m sure are quite high.
  • It’s clear he’s trying to make common hunters fear for their financial security at the highest level for daring to have a shoulder temporarily move through a corner of airspace on a 22,000 acre ranch.
• Meanwhile, politicians clamor to find a way to keep themselves and the select few people like Non-resident Eshelman from giving up their exclusive free access to the public’s resources with new bills with language crafted in a way that they can try to claim they are not about corner crossing.
• G&F commission president pulls BHA’s commissioner tag so he doesn’t appear to be supporting hunters accessing public land over large landowners claiming it for themselves
• Organizations like TRCP and Wyoming Wildlife Federation wont take a stance on what is a fairly clear cut issue because they are afraid it will result in them losing cooperation with large land owners in conservation projects, legislature retaliation, and loss of their own commissioner tags. Based on what has happened thus far, their fears seem well founded! It's rumored they have been instructed by lobbyists to stay away from the corner crossing issue.
  • This brings up more stink about the use of commissioners tags at all

Where is the evidence of much of this? Are the body cam videos available to the public? Are the phone calls to the county attorneys office available to the public? Ect….

Not implying that it didn’t happen, just more interested in the truth rather than speculation.

 

[wind gypsy]

Where is the evidence of much of this? Are the body cam videos available to the public? Are the phone calls to the county attorneys office available to the public? Ect….

Not implying that it didn’t happen, just more interested in the truth rather than speculation.

Fair question. A lot of the info comes from the 66 page defendant's motion to dismiss (posted on hunttalk) which includes the actual sheriff's and game warden's documentation of their investigations and referenced the body cam footage they were provided with. Actual body cam footage was not included but they quoted conversations from the footage that the defense was provided in discovery.

The claims about landowner calling the CA repeatedly is where I might be over the tips of my skis a bit in the synopsis as it may never be publicly proven. Some of that was shared by folks close to the situation but I didn't see documented proof. The documents from sheriff reports do acknowledge how the sheriffs were instructed to cite the hunters by the CA after this had been going on for a while but I doubt the CA or the sheriffs would like to make the details of the phone calls public. I edited the synopsis to make sure I am not miss-representing.

 

[Slugz]

I dont believe you can turn in a motion to dismiss with that much detail, with no evidence.
Im not in the know exactly, but what I have heard and read there is not any stretching of any truths.
Buzz is in the know and involved so maybe we will see another update from him at some point.

 

[cnelk]

Fair question. A lot of the info comes from the 66 page defendant's motion to dismiss (posted on hunttalk) which includes the actual sheriff's and game warden's documentation of their investigations and referenced the body cam footage they were provided with. Actual body cam footage was not included but they quoted conversations from the footage that the defense was provided in discovery.

How come its posted on 'hunttalk' and not here?

Does Brandy Oldberg have that much pull?

 

[Slugz]

I thought it was already on this thread.
Its 75MB so let me try and compress and post.