Wyoming 90/10 for elk

[Indian Summer]

Exactly.

The point of my post was that fighting this crap is going to take some out of the box thinking. Because what we’re doing now and the tools we have aren’t working.

90% of us in this thread want the same thing. Not every idea has merit, but the alternative is doing the same thing and expecting things to change, which is insanity.

Sarcastic responses just further the divide and gets us nowhere.

90% of us on here represent about .5% of non resident hunters. We’re on here because we hunt elk. Go to the Illinois or Kansas deer hunting forum and see who knows what’s going on or even cares. And remember this stuff doesn’t come from Fish and Game. They have no problem with NR hunters. They like our money too. Residents do not pay the bills. But the task force is like the non res KKK! They despise us. So yeah thinking outside the box is probably a good idea. But probably a waste of time too. We don’t vote there. You’d have to go the Federal route. It would probably be cheaper and more efficient to reintroduce elk to your home state.

 

[Rifleman86]

Some day, some anti hunting liberal Senator or Congressman is going to have a bright idea of banning outfitters in federally designated wilderness. Incrementalism is what they do after all, and I’ll give them credit, they are damn good at it.

I mean, commercial activity shouldn’t be happening in wilderness areas anyway right? It’s hard to argue outfitting isn’t commercial activity.

I’m sure WOGA, MOGA will cry fowl and beg for help. I sure as shit won’t lift a finger. Hell, I might even support it.

As a Company Commander in the Army I used to tell my young LT’s, “you gotta get along to get along, because everybody has some level of power over everyone else in the organization, whether it’s formally acknowledged or not.”

Some hot shot LT would try to run rough shot over a senior W4, threaten to give him a bad OER, counselings, whatever. A few months later the LT would show up for his yearly checkride, and come to find out that W4 was being assigned as his check pilot for the day.

It’s true in nearly every organization, and I’m positive government is no different.

 

[BuzzH]

Some day, some anti hunting liberal Senator or Congressman is going to have a bright idea of banning outfitters in federally designated wilderness. Incrementalism is what they do after all, and I’ll give them credit, they are damn good at it.

I mean, commercial activity shouldn’t be happening in wilderness areas anyway right? It’s hard to argue outfitting isn’t commercial activity.

I’m sure WOGA, MOGA will cry fowl and beg for help. I sure as shit won’t lift a finger. Hell, I might even support it.

As a Company Commander in the Army I used to tell my young LT’s, “you gotta get along to get along, because everybody has some level of power over everyone else in the organization, whether it’s formally acknowledged or not.”

Some hot shot LT would try to run rough shot over a senior W4, threaten to give him a bad OER, counselings, whatever. A few months later the LT would show up for his yearly checkride, and come to find out that W4 was being assigned as his check pilot for the day.

It’s true in nearly every organization, and I’m positive government is no different.

Wouldn't break my heart to see outfitters banned from commercial activity in wilderness.

 

[Jimss]

Banning outfitters from guiding on federal land is a great idea!

Just think, Wyo DIY/OYO res and nonres would have that much less hunting pressure and competition! Generally speaking outfitter's clients often harvest some of the biggest bucks and bulls on the mtn. Can you imagine the quality of bucks that would be running around in region G and H.....and antelope bucks on the blm on the prairie if there weren't guided hunters picking them off! I'm sure the idea would be laughed at....at Task Force meetings but I guess we all can dream!

 

[Bighorner]

How about answering my question. To me this whole outfitter set aside proposal could essentially be called privatized hunting… on public land. Total BS. But…. How much affect will it actually have on DIY hunters?

I agree with pretty much everything you said. DEA are not in near the bind the sheep and moose are. I am completley fine with the split as it stands today.

The outfitter allocation is a complete hand out. What are they bringing to the table besides a strong lobby? It may not hurt anything, but there is absolutely no reason for it.

I'm not worried about what they are proposing today, it's what they will ask for next time and the time after that. They deserve no extra perks, they do nothing, that I am aware of, for the greater good of wildlife or the public. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Rifleman86]

Wouldn't break my heart to see outfitters banned from commercial activity in wilderness.

Well there ya go, WOGA wants to run rough shot over WY residents and nonresidents alike?

BHA just found a new issue to tackle on the federal level. Fighting commercial activity in federal wilderness, namely guiding and outfitting.

Sure would be better hunting for all of us unguided folks, resident and nonresidents alike if all the outfitters were gone. I don’t think the WY wilderness rule would last long if that were the case.

WOGA might want to pick their battles a bit better next time.

 

[Rifleman86]

Banning outfitters from guiding on federal land is a great idea!

Just think, Wyo DIY/OYO res and nonres would have that much less hunting pressure and competition! Generally speaking outfitter's clients often harvest some of the biggest bucks and bulls on the mtn. Can you imagine the quality of bucks that would be running around in region G and H.....and antelope bucks on the blm on the prairie if there weren't guided hunters picking them off! I'm sure the idea would be laughed at....at Task Force meetings but I guess we all can dream!

They can laugh all they want, it isn’t up to them. Feds manage the land, and the TF doesn’t have a say.

Seems it’s a two way street after all.

 

[mossyoak52]

I have no grievance with giving landowners tags if they tolerate public wildlife using their lands.

But over on hunttalk your constantly V#@#@@ about all the landowner tags being given to montana ranchers
Lol so it seems landowner tags are good for wyoming but not good for montana or any other state

 

[dirtytough]

Its literally this garbage that makes me stop pulling for the NR when a small minority had to continually pop up and cry in the cheerios and threaten to take their minuscule contribution away as a form of retaliation. Everytime I think the TF is hitting NR to hard some has to cry poor me and rethink how hard I want to write in as a resident on a NR behalf.

I dont know how many letters you've written but my gut says zero. Maybe put your energy there instead of crying the internet a river.

Lol you got me. I’m crying a river about something that will benefit me. If I’m crying they are tears of joy.

And I also gave the best advice to non res in this thread. I personally don’t care anymore what western states do. The writing is on the wall you better be a resident or you will get screwed. Every non res needs to open their eyes. It’s blatantly obvious.

Even residents better watch out. Curious how easy it is to get private access now? How much winter range is getting lost to developments every year? How easy is it for kids to buy a house where they grew up? These aren’t questions for you BH. Just rhetorical questions I think about when I see the rapid growth in western states, and see residents bitching about not being able to afford housing and property taxes.

 

[Bighorner]

Lol you got me. I’m crying a river about something that will benefit me. If I’m crying they are tears of joy.

And I also gave the best advice to non res in this thread. I personally don’t care anymore what western states do. The writing is on the wall you better be a resident or you will get screwed. Every non res needs to open their eyes. It’s blatantly obvious.

Even residents better watch out. Curious how easy it is to get private access now? How much winter range is getting lost to developments every year? How easy is it for kids to buy a house where they grew up? These aren’t questions for you BH. Just rhetorical questions I think about when I see the rapid growth in western states, and see residents bitching about not being able to afford housing and property taxes.

You don't care, but yet I see you time and time again make empty threats in a real conversations.

I realize that what is happening right now is going to have far reaching implications on hunting in Wyoming. It's time to be involved in a real way not just bitch.

I am here to have real conversations that will help form a more well rounded opinion. I am taking this pretty seriously.

Frankly I have read a good share of the letters submitted to the Task Force and I can tell you the whinny, crying, you better do this or else BS has not furthered the NR cause. There is a pretty clear distinction between people bringing facts and children throwing toys.

I am here. I see the rapid growth. Yes you are completely right the amount of habitats disruption going on now is pretty. What will housing look like in 10 years? A lot different than today. We have seen boom and bust before. I see new land owners make horrible decisions and will be amazed to see them on the place in 5 years. Houses built on in poor locations, law suits with neighbors and dry wells.

 

[BuzzH]

But over on hunttalk your constantly V#@#@@ about all the landowner tags being given to montana ranchers
Lol so it seems landowner tags are good for wyoming but not good for montana or any other state

If you can't see the difference between the 454 program ( bulls for billionaires crap) that's going on in Montana and Wyoming's tightly regulated landowner program, then I guess there really isn't much you will ever understand.

Those two programs are night and day different.

 

[Indian Summer]

I personally think they should completely separate private land outfitters who do nothing but hold a key to the gate to provide not much more than a chance to pull the trigger and public land outfitters who not only work their asses off for real during hunting season but also spend money and work year round mending gear and feeding livestock and paying vet bills to provide a quality experience in God’s country for a lot less money. Those private land tags should have no affect on public land hunting be it outfitted or diy.

 

[dirtytough]

You don't care, but yet I see you time and time again make empty threats in a real conversations.

I realize that what is happening right now is going to have far reaching implications on hunting in Wyoming. It's time to be involved in a real way not just bitch.

I am here to have real conversations that will help form a more well rounded opinion. I am taking this pretty seriously.

Frankly I have read a good share of the letters submitted to the Task Force and I can tell you the whinny, crying, you better do this or else BS has not furthered the NR cause. There is a pretty clear distinction between people bringing facts and children throwing toys.

I am here. I see the rapid growth. Yes you are completely right the amount of habitats disruption going on now is pretty. What will housing look like in 10 years? A lot different than today. We have seen boom and bust before. I see new land owners make horrible decisions and will be amazed to see them on the place in 5 years. Houses built on in poor locations, law suits with neighbors and dry wells.

Show me my “empty threats in a real conversations.”

The facts are non res are losing a bigger percentage of opportunity in every state except Colorado, than residents are. And I believe that’s coming also.

Non res are expected to keep donating to orgs, send letters on every issue, donate to corner crossing, etc.

Western state’s populations are booming from people moving in. Property costs are soaring. Winter range is getting lost. Property taxes are going way up. All those are facts. Not threats.

Quit trying to be Buzz and twist what posters type.

 

[tdhanses]

Show me my “empty threats in a real conversations.”

The facts are non res are losing a bigger percentage of opportunity in every state except Colorado, than residents are. And I believe that’s coming also.

Non res are expected to keep donating to orgs, send letters on every issue, donate to corner crossing, etc.

Western state’s populations are booming from people moving in. Property costs are soaring. Winter range is getting lost. Property taxes are going way up. All those are facts. Not threats.

Quit trying to be Buzz and twist what posters type.

Next we’ll hear residents complaining that people are moving there, well it’s what many residents continually say to do. So once they really improve resident options it will be even more enticing to move, you would think that residents would want a decent carrot dangled in front of NR to keep them from becoming residents.

Wyoming’s population growth outpacing other states

Wyoming’s population is growing faster than the country’s.

www.thesheridanpress.com

 

[ColoradoV]

Haha dude in 2021 - 1700 people moved to wyo ..

Colorado has had 20-60k move here each year over the past 5 years…

So good to hear the Colo commission is looking at 90-10 or at least 80-20 here in Colo as well as elimination of otc as it is needed to be even fair to Colorado residents.

Wyo can do whatever it wants. But it is becoming clear that the apply apply apply hustle the mags and the rest drew the nr lemmings in with is just that a hustle to monetize hunting. This pushing of a product that is flat juat not realistic for nr hunters. Or don’t blame the states blame the mags, Inet, YouTube, and the like.. Just too many folks monetizing hunting for it to be sustained for nr hunters.

It is clear western hunting will be harder and harder for a all non residents including myself and I am ok with that.

 

[tdhanses]

Haha dude in 2021 - 1700 people moved to wyo ..

Colorado has had 20-60k move here each year over the past 5 years…

So good to hear the Colo commission is looking at 90-10 or at least 80-20 here in Colo as well as elimination of otc as it is needed to be even fair to Colorado residents.

Wyo can do whatever it wants. But it is becoming clear that the apply apply apply hustle the mags and the rest drew the nr lemmings in with is just that a hustle to monetize hunting. This pushing of a product that is flat not not realistic for nr hunters. Or don’t blame the states blame the mags, Inet, YouTube, and the like.. Just too many folks monetizing hunting for it to be sustained for nr hunters.

It is clear western hunting will be harder and harder for a all non residents including myself and I am ok with that.

Yeah but WY only has a total population of 580k, if 10k hunters move there over the next 5 years, resident odds just reduced more then they just gained in lowering NR odds.

 

[dirtytough]

Next we’ll hear residents complaining that people are moving there, well it’s what many residents continually say to do. So once they really improve resident options it will be even more enticing to move, you would think that residents would want a decent carrot dangled in front of NR to keep them from becoming residents.

Wyoming’s population growth outpacing other states

Wyoming’s population is growing faster than the country’s.

www.thesheridanpress.com

Is that an empty threat? Lol

It is blatantly obvious what is happening to non res opportunity across the west. A non res better make the best of it.

My suggestions for non res (Which are biased based on my situation) are get your hunts in asap. Save your money and buy tags, buy access in heavily private easy draw units, move, or pick up a new hobby.

 

[ColoradoV]

Td,

As a family member and wyo resident says “Wyoming where nothing can live in large numbers”

Yep

 

[tdhanses]

Td,

As a family member and wyo resident says “Wyoming where nothing can live in large numbers”

Yep

 

[tdhanses]

Is that an empty threat? Lol

It is blatantly obvious what is happening to non res opportunity across the west. A non res better make the best of it.

My suggestions for non res (Which are biased based on my situation) are get your hunts in asap. Save your money and buy tags, buy access in heavily private easy draw units, move, or pick up a new hobby.

Heck Kifaru saw the advantages for no state income tax and better hunting for the owner and employees, there alone are a few new resident hunters in the pool.

The question is, who’s all moving and you don’t even have to live there over the winters to be a resident. Plus the more NR hunters that move and become residents, even if only for 5 years, the better NR odds get