Wyoming 90/10 for elk

[BuzzH]

Sure, states own wildlife, and nonresidents don’t have a “right” to other states wildlife.

I get all that. You are correct. Yet somehow the ESA passed and WT and WY can’t have a Grizzly season. Sure seems like some trampling of states rights there.

My point being, WY doesn’t have a ton of pull on the federal level. That’s a fact.

Enough people from the 49 other states get pissed off about not being able to hunt “their” land things can change, and it might not be for the best with respect to WY residents or WOGA.

Who knows what exactly that would look like, and I’d agree it’s unlikely, but to say retribution on the federal level isn’t possible is overstating your position a bit.

Personally I’d rather we all work together to make hunting better for all of us, improve access, habitat, etc.

The other 49 states are going to continue to look out for their STATE, not your NR opportunities hunting in the other 49. States rights are THE priority to State, and Federal legislators.

 

[BuckeyeRifleman]

The other 49 states are going to continue to look out for their STATE, not your NR opportunities hunting in the other 49. States rights are THE priority to State, and Federal legislators.

If that’s the case, why do I call my senators and congressmen every time Mike Lee tries to sell Federal land out of state? Or open federal land to drilling?

How wildlife is managed on federal land light not be in their purview, but it’s ignorant to say it’s not in their interest. How outfitters are managed on that land is another topic entirely.

ETA the feds could crush the outfitting industry on federal land if they wanted. Want to play stupid games? No more outfitter permits for you…

 

[BuzzH]

If that’s the case, why do I call my senators and congressmen every time Mike Lee tries to sell Federal land out of state? Or open federal land to drilling?

How wildlife is managed on federal land light not be in their purview, but it’s ignorant to say it’s not in their interest. How outfitters are managed on that land is another topic entirely.

Because you, along with 330 million others, are "owners" of FEDERAL public lands. Your Senators and YOUR congressmen have the ability to legislate policy on Federal lands, no matter what state that land is in.

You are not among the 581,000 Wyoming Residents who the wildlife found within our borders is held in trust for. Your Senators and Congressmen have ZERO say in our states wildlife resources, even our own Senators and Congressmen don't have much, if any say, in our States wildlife resources.

Once again...two totally different mandates.

 

[WI Shedhead]

Buzz- you have to agree, the nr PP. money grab by the wygf has to be commended and they need a real pat on the back for sucking so much cash out of us gullible out of staters. Moving the bar in the middle of the game is what people are so pissed about. When the high point holders are gone or people just pull the plug all together, your resident system will be turned to points as well, and they can stick the vacuum in your pocket. Tell us all how that tickles when it happens.

 

[William Sublette]

Bruh, that's a killer puffy, what kinda glassing socks ya running?

 

[tdhanses]

I guess in the end people have to decide if becoming a resident is worth it or not, is the passion for hunting your main objective. I think it would be great for WY to have 480,000 new residents with similar mindsets move there, jobs aren’t the issue they were 20 years ago, it’s families now. When you think of 600k hunter in WI and 750k in PA, wouldn’t take but 10% of hunters to move west for better outdoor opportunities.

Thing is hunting for most isn’t really their top priority and it shouldn’t be.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz- you have to agree, the nr PP. money grab by the wygf has to be commended and they need a real pat on the back for sucking so much cash out of us gullible out of staters. Moving the bar in the middle of the game is what people are so pissed about. When the high point holders are gone or people just pull the plug all together, your resident system will be turned to points as well, and they can stick the vacuum in your pocket. Tell us all how that tickles when it happens.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to apply in Wyoming or any other state. I've had the "bar" moved on me in every single State I've been applying in for the last 42 years.

Wyoming will continue to set records for applications like they have been for more than a decade.

There will always be wayyyy more NR applying than there are tags.

I'm not sure of your point?

 

[Tod osier]

Thing is hunting for most isn’t really their top priority and it shouldn’t be.

Absolutely is mine.

 

[wapitibob]

Kyle (nvagvup) was a regular contributor on bowsite till he got some heat for buying most of the sheep raffle tags then shooting it with a rifle. Bowsite went into the shitter not long after and he left. I remember the wyoga thing and he wasn't shy about going and testifying. Might have done the same if I cared about a sheep tag.

 

[BuzzH]

Kyle (nvagvup) was a regular contributor on bowsite till he got some heat for buying most of the sheep raffle tags then shooting it with a rifle. Bowsite went into the shitter not long after and he left. I remember the wyoga thing and he wasn't shy about going and testifying. Might have done the same if I cared about a sheep tag.

I don't think he killed any of his sheep with a bow.

He didn't just buy most of the raffle tags, he circumvented the entire raffle and cut a deal behind closed doors, IRRC.

 

[WI Shedhead]

Point is just cause the other states are doin it( the cool kids). Doesn’t make it right. When you create a system and set it up a certain way, and then change it- for special interests- it just smells like shit.

I agree things are gonna get nothin but worse for all sportsman lookin to hunt the west

 

[3forks]

At this point, I feel like the only way to fight any of this is federal legislation that puts bumpers on how states treat nonresidents, or else they lose PR funding. We literally have no other voice at this point. You don’t get to soak up millions on federal wildlife funds, all while allowing residents and outfitters to have their own personal hunting utopia on federal lands while essentially locking out the rest of the country from hunting the land they own.

For the record I’m not saying that because I want to take away anything from the resident, or that I don’t think outfitters should be able to run a business. State residents should have much better access/cost than the rest of us. But there comes a point when you are treated so unfairly by state agencies and have such little voice I see no other option, other than just resigning to quit hunting or move.

We’ve done it with highway funds, I don’t see why it couldn’t be done with PR dollars.

Unilateral state management has been really good for all of us, up until it hasn’t.

I’m sure you‘ve heard the expression “my life is better than your vacation”, right?

If you haven’t, it‘s a popular phrase with residents in areas of the country where others come to visit. I mention this, because residents of western states, and in particular Wyoming, make a lot of sacrifices to live where they do and prioritize the ability to take advantage of the attributes of their state.

I understand that non-residents don’t like seeing their opportunities to hunt diminish, but residents are also trying to protect why they live in states like Wyoming. Your interest in hunting Wyoming or any other western state during your brief stay doesn’t mean the state or its resident’s have to worry about your interests.

 

[BuzzH]

Point is just cause the other states are doin it( the cool kids). Doesn’t make it right. When you create a system and set it up a certain way, and then change it- for special interests- it just smells like shit.

I agree things are gonna get nothin but worse for all sportsman lookin to hunt the west

I don't disagree, its sucks I can't hunt Dall sheep in Alaska again as NR for $4700 and a tag I bought at walmart.

Its now $20K with the same guy I went with and tags are all on draw.

Nothing stays the same, unfortunately.

 

[JFK]

I’m sure you‘ve heard the expression “my life is better than your vacation”, right?

If you haven’t, it‘s a popular phrase with residents in areas of the country where others come to visit. I mention this, because residents of western states, and in particular Wyoming, make a lot of sacrifices to live where they do and prioritize the ability to take advantage of the attributes of their state.

I understand that non-residents don’t like seeing their opportunities to hunt diminish, but residents are also trying to protect why they live in states like Wyoming. Your interest in hunting Wyoming or any other western state during your brief stay doesn’t mean the state or its resident’s have to worry about your interests.

We’ll put and I’d never argue against the above point. Wyoming residents absolutely deserve tags.

I can’t speak to all species in all areas of the state, but I’d be willing to bet that Wy residents have about the best thing going in the lower 48 in terms of opportunity. I was out there this past fall hunting antelope and talking to a resident (guide on a float trip fishing) and he told me he couldn’t get an elk tag, and that it had recently gotten more difficult to draw. I took it at face value but later, out of curiosity, looked at the resident odds for elk units in proximity to that area and there were several units within a days drive where he could have pulled an elk tag. Point being, is that sentiment and perception don’t always equal reality. Where I was hunting residents had 100% draw odds on antelope and close to that on deer as well. To take an area like that where residents are already getting very good opportunity and lowering it for NR doesn’t make a ton of sense to me.

Where this proposal really loses me is that, even if 90/10 passes, why would they feel the need to further reduce NR options by forcing 50% of the NR tags into outfitter’s hands? I’m assuming, maybe wrongly, that many Wy residents enjoy the freedom, satisfaction and the lower cost of diy hunts. Many NR do too. Most outfitters that are worth their salt are turning customers down…not because of tags but because they don’t have the spots available. The outfitter vets them, finds out how many points they have and a contract is signed if they have a realistic chance of drawing. It doesn’t seem like a broken system to me. Shitty outfitters are really the only ones who benefit from this proposal of guaranteed tags.

 

[Bighorner]

What "compromise" is being made to set aside outfitter tags? What if anything is WOGA bringing to the table. I mean that in all serious. This is nothing but welfare.

 

[3forks]

We’ll put and I’d never argue against the above point. Wyoming residents absolutely deserve tags.

I can’t speak to all species in all areas of the state, but I’d be willing to bet that Wy residents have about the best thing going in the lower 48 in terms of opportunity. I was out there this past fall hunting antelope and talking to a resident (guide on a float trip fishing) and he told me he couldn’t get an elk tag, and that it had recently gotten more difficult to draw. I took it at face value but later, out of curiosity, looked at the resident odds for elk units in proximity to that area and there were several units within a days drive where he could have pulled an elk tag. Point being, is that sentiment and perception don’t always equal reality. Where I was hunting residents had 100% draw odds on antelope and close to that on deer as well. To take an area like that where residents are already getting very good opportunity and lowering it for NR doesn’t make a ton of sense to me.

Where this proposal really loses me is that, even if 90/10 passes, why would they feel the need to further reduce NR options by forcing 50% of the NR tags into outfitter’s hands? I’m assuming, maybe wrongly, that many Wy residents enjoy the freedom, satisfaction and the lower cost of diy hunts. Many NR do too. Most outfitters that are worth their salt are turning customers down…not because of tags but because they don’t have the spots available. The outfitter vets them, finds out how many points they have and a contract is signed if they have a realistic chance of drawing. It doesn’t seem like a broken system to me. Shitty outfitters are really the only ones who benefit from this proposal of guaranteed tags.

I agree with you, and for what it’s worth, I didn’t agree with the Troubled Asset Relief Program in 2008 (bank and auto manufacturer bail outs) either - but state and federal government are always propping up industries that are in trouble. I don’t mean to imply that outfitting in WY is in trouble, but they absolutely get a lot of consideration from the state. And, with the assistance outfitters in WY do get - you’d have to be pretty bad at running your business not to succeed.

Also, I guided fishing for 20 years and worked for numerous outfitters. Some were good and others were welfare parasites.

 

[Bighorner]

Just make sure you guys keep donating to all the conservation orgs, corner crossing go fund me, grizzly delisting, etc. That way you can go fishing and read stories in magazines about a resident or guided non res that killed another animal of a lifetime. You might even get a thank you postcard in the mail from the conservation org.

Non res you better get yours as soon as you can everywhere.

Its literally this garbage that makes me stop pulling for the NR when a small minority had to continually pop up and cry in the cheerios and threaten to take their minuscule contribution away as a form of retaliation. Everytime I think the TF is hitting NR to hard some has to cry poor me and rethink how hard I want to write in as a resident on a NR behalf.

I dont know how many letters you've written but my gut says zero. Maybe put your energy there instead of crying the internet a river.

 

[Indian Summer]

Could always resort to hunting your own state...just a thought.

Cmon Buzz really. This thread is no place for sarcasm.

How about answering my question. To me this whole outfitter set aside proposal could essentially be called privatized hunting… on public land. Total BS. But…. How much affect will it actually have on DIY hunters? I think the number of elk hunters using an outfitter is already 50%. It’s not deer or antelope. Guys who aren’t hunting elk regularly need help killing them and dealing with them once they hit the ground. Hell some of them need help camping!

So if we just give them the 50% they are already taking we would have less competition for the rest. Also with the 90/10 split on LE tags we’d essentially have more NR general licenses available if I’m reading that correctly.

Someone needs to get actual numbers on how many NR hunters are using outfitters. Before we go getting all worked up about the sky falling and poking the bees nest some more and pissing more people off. Yes the whole concept sucks. But are the results as bed as one might initially assume?

It’ll NEVER happen but I’d like to see the other 50%, our 50% of the general licenses be invalid for use with outfitted hunts. The fkrs would be thinking twice about this crap then!!!

As a former outfitter I have a soft spot for my fellow man. I see things in a way most other people don’t. But I’ve also had a sore spot with Wyoming outfitters, or WOGA because of the other total bullshit public land policy which is the wilderness restriction. In a day where prejudice and discrimination are being called out and disapproved of more than ever I can’t believe they get away with this $h1t on OUR land!

 

[BuckeyeRifleman]

Cmon Buzz really. This thread is no place for sarcasm.

How about answering my question. To me this whole outfitter set aside proposal could essentially be called privatized hunting… on public land. Total BS. But…. How much affect will it actually have on DIY hunters? I think the number of elk hunters using an outfitter is already 50%. It’s not deer or antelope. Guys who aren’t hunting elk regularly need help killing them and dealing with them once they hit the ground. Hell some of them need help camping!

So if we just give them the 50% they are already taking we would have less competition for the rest. Also with the 90/10 split on LE tags we’d essentially have more NR general licenses available if I’m reading that correctly.

Someone needs to get actual numbers on how many NR hunters are using outfitters. Before we go getting all worked up about the sky falling and poking the bees nest some more and pissing more people off. Yes the whole concept sucks. But are the results as bed as one might initially assume?

It’ll NEVER happen but I’d like to see the other 50%, our 50% of the general licenses be invalid for use with outfitted hunts. The fkrs would be thinking twice about this crap then!!!

As a former outfitter I have a soft spot for my fellow man. I see things in a way most other people don’t. But I’ve also had a sore spot with Wyoming outfitters, or WOGA because of the other total bullshit public land policy which is the wilderness restriction. In a day where prejudice and discrimination are being called out and disapproved of more than ever I can’t believe they get away with this $h1t on OUR land!

Exactly.

The point of my post was that fighting this crap is going to take some out of the box thinking. Because what we’re doing now and the tools we have aren’t working.

90% of us in this thread want the same thing. Not every idea has merit, but the alternative is doing the same thing and expecting things to change, which is insanity.

Sarcastic responses just further the divide and gets us nowhere.

 

[Kimber7man]

What % of outfitters guide hunters on public land?
Just curious because as a NR I've been to Wyoming 7 out of the last 9 Octobers. This October will make it 8 out of 10. I've used an outfitter for a guided hunt every time and they never hunted public land.