Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

[Kimber7man]

At this point, yes that's what they are talking about.

Outfitters on the task force will oppose any change to nonresident PP. IMO

Did the President of Game and Fish used to own an outfitting business?

 

[tdhanses]

Buzz,
I’m interested in this. No malice or hidden agenda, just curious.
What would you propose so that the outfitters, restaurants, hotels, and other tourism profiteers start paying their way?
If we can agree they are already paying salaries and overhead, rent, taxes, and all other costs of owning a business and thus contributing to the local and state economy?
What else could they do?

Whats interesting is residents always say they pay their way in taxes and living expense, highly doubt hunter volunteer work is more then 10% of resident hunters so all these business do just as much as the resident hunters, i think they all should do more, maybe higher taxes and hunting/fishing fees for residents.

 

[Ten Bears]

D

 

[Steve O]

The landowner tag “story” was just started at the end of the 9/1 meeting; that looks to be the big topic of the next meeting from what I gathered.

Should be a good one.

Anxious for the 9/1 video to be posted on the task force website to see what I missed from the first hour or two. Someone made the comment many were all worn out from the discussion at the beginning.

 

[Ten Bears]

t.

 

[Jimss]

Colo learned years ago that nonres can be their best friend! It's no wonder that Colo still offers unlimited OTC tags to nonres elk hunters plus 20 to 35% of deer, elk, and antelope tags.

As I've been saying all along small business owners in small, isolated towns prosper from hunters....and in particular nonres hunters. Yes there are lots of Wyo res that purchase a few things from small towns but my guess is that most Wyo res buy groceries and gas in the town where they live. Wyo res will be buying groceries whether they hunt or not. Wyo nonres bring lots of $ to the small towns and purchase a lot of goods and services on their trips. I would also guess that a large % of Wyo res either camp out or head home at the end of the day since they hunt close to home. If you take a look at hotel parking lots during the hunting season a large % have nonres tags on vehicles.

Buzz mentioned, "In my world, you want a seat at the table, you pay for it...no free lunch." Well Buzz it is well documented that nonres contribute 70% of the WG&F budget from pref pt and license fees. Nonres also contribute 100% of pref pt fees from deer, elk, and antelope to the WG&F. Wyo residents contribute $0.00 for pref pt budget and are getting a "free lunch!" It seems mighty fair to me that the % of limited tags stay the same for nonres since they contribute so much to the WG&F budget?

 

[wapitibob]

Non residents don't contribute 70% of the dept budget and residents buy $100,000 worth of points.

 

[JM77]

Did the President of Game and Fish used to own an outfitting business?

The President of the Commission, yes.

 

[Jimss]

Oops, my mistake! Not 70% of the budget from license and pref pt sales but 77%!

 

[wapitibob]

We've talked about this a million times...

NR provide ~77% of licensing revenue
Licensing revenue is ~63% of the total budget

so, NR pay 77% of 63%, for a total game dept budget contribution of ~51%

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/About%20Us/Commission/WGFD-Revenue-Fact-Sheet_FINAL.pdf

 

[Jimss]

Looking at the total revenue list in your post above, Wyo residents aren't paying the Federal Aid, Grants, Interest, misc, either? With that said, nonres are truly supporting 77% of the budget that comes from res and nonres. The remaining funding comes from outside sources!

It's super easy to reduce and weaken the actual differences between the contribution of nonres vs res by looking at the total budget. This is actually deceiving since Wyo residents also aren't contribute to the remaining funding either.

The fact is nonres currently are supporting a large portion of the budget that comes from res and nonres!

 

[wytx]

And residents buy things too when we go hunting. We need gas, food and sometimes lodging. Since we may take more than one trip over to fill our tags we also spend more than once.
Why are NRs the boom for small towns during hunting season ?

 

[Jimss]

Wyo res have to buy food whether they go hunting or not. My guess is that the majority of res hunt close to home and return each day. It would be very interesting to take a count in small town hotel and restaurant parking lots how many trucks have nonres vs res license plates.

Nonres are far from home and are faced with either camping out or staying in a hotel or lodge. Ask any small business owner in remote small towns like Craig or Meeker in Colorado how many nonres buy goods and services from them!

 

[BuzzH]

Looking at the total revenue list in your post above, Wyo residents aren't paying the Federal Aid, Grants, Interest, misc, either? With that said, nonres are truly supporting 77% of the budget that comes from res and nonres. The remaining funding comes from outside sources!

It's super easy to reduce and weaken the actual differences between the contribution of nonres vs res by looking at the total budget. This is actually deceiving since Wyo residents also aren't contribute to the remaining funding either.

The fact is nonres currently are supporting a large portion of the budget that comes from res and nonres!

This is just sad, that you have to lie in an attempt to prove a false point.

Yes, NR's pay a bigger portion of license fees, but there's no sense in the lies.

PR/DJ funds are something you need to understand Sebastian, you don't have a clue. A majority of the actual funding doesn't come from either R or NR sportsmen....like I said, study up. It is based on total license sales and R's definitely buy more total licenses for both fishing and hunting in Wyoming.

The total budget absolutely matters. So do lot of other funding sources. Like Conservation License Plate sales, 100% funded by Residents. Contributions to perpetual easements, like Wyoming BHA just provided for Raymond Mountain, $47,000 contribution. Volunteer hours by BHA, RMEF, MFF, WSF, etc. etc. valued at $29 an hour...almost entirely by Wyoming Residents. WWNRT funding, again 100% funded by Residents. I could go on all day long.

As to who spends what, I can tell you that in my situation I outspend a vast majority of all hunters, R and NR alike.

This year I bought a NR pronghorn license for my Dad for his birthday, a NR elk tag for my Nephew just because. I donated $200 to Accessyes. Bought all my licenses. Also purchased lifetime small game, fishing, conservation, and upland bird licenses a few years back. I won't live long enough to get the value from them...and not why I did it.

I'll be hunting with my Dad for pronghorn here in Wyoming, I'll be catching the tab for 3-4 nights at a local hotel and we'll probably split restaurant and fuel bills. I just got back from 2 days of scouting over there, some great bucks to be had. I payed for that too. I'll also be picking up the entire tab for my NR nephews elk hunt too.

Resident hunters spend a shitload of money in Wyoming, just a fact.

Sebastian, its pathetic you have to lie because you don't want your tag allocations cut. Its going to happen, so you better grow up, man up, and learn to deal with it.

For the record, you aren't fooling anyone with your lies, in particular the task force and commission.

 

[JM77]

I'll be hunting with my Dad for pronghorn here in Wyoming, I'll be catching the tab for 3-4 nights at a local hotel and we'll probably split restaurant and fuel bills. I just got back from 2 days of scouting over there, some great bucks to be had. I payed for that too. I'll also be picking up the entire tab for my NR nephews elk hunt too.

Better not split those restaurant and fuel bills or Jimss will turn you in for illegal outfitting.

 

[Laramie]

Buzz, you are not the normal resident. You know that. Using your contribution as an example is not realistic. You know that as you live there. Quit acting like that is the norm. Most residents don't invest any personal time.

Congrats, you do more than your share. Here is your virtual pat on the back. I personally appreciate what you do but in the grand scheme, what you, and I, do is not important.

Your arguments don't mean squat and neither do most of the non resident arguments. You know that.

It has been brought up by another member or two that your comments regarding 90/10 aren't very accurate and really don't represent what the committee is doing. I, and I'm guessing most other members, would appreciate it if you would keep to the facts.

Jmiss, that goes for you too.

 

[Jimss]

Lies lies lies....you are one funny guy Buzz. You can twist and turn everything I say anyway you want but I'll stick with what I've been saying all along. Nonres fund 77% of the WG&F pref pt and license fee budget.....that's not a lie...it's fact! Buzz mentioned, "In my world, you want a seat at the table, you pay for it...no free lunch." Sounds like nonres need a head seat at the table?

I bet everyone on this website could care less what you do with your relatives? Relatively speaking it doesn't matter! That's great you are buying tags for your relatives and taking them hunting but not exactly sure how that matters in this discussion. I guess I'll join others and pat you on your back?

Buzz as usual you are slapping a lot of nonres right in the face with your statement about Wyo outside funding? How about RMEF and other national organizations that nonres likely donate just as much or more than Wyo res? It's statements like yours that will likely piss a few nonres off that donate large sums of $ to support Wyoming elk and other wildlife! I wonder how many of those nonres that support Wyo wildlife will pull the plug on donations, pref pt fees, etc if nonres limited tags are cut in 1/2?

I think it's a little wild that there is so much hatred towards nonres that support 77% of the pref pt and license fee budget and offer life to small town revenue. If 90/10 does happen in Wyo nonres are welcome in Colo. I'm sure the small towns appreciate your business if they aren't welcome in Wyo!

 

[wytx]

Jimss residents travel all over the state to hunt. We took a trip to scout the spouse's moose area this June. We go hunt in Sept and maybe back in Oct if needed. Our pronghorn trip will include hotel and meals.
A good many NR hunters bring most of their food with them, camp when they hunt and fuel is a given for all of us.
I did just have a conversation with some locals in a small town near our moose area, tourists spend way more in town than NR hunters. By the way everyone in the local watering hole were residents , not a NR in the house.

We spend money in Wyoming every day, not just hunting seasons.

License numbers will be the same , residents or NR, and hunters will spend money in small towns regardless of where they came from.

 

[Bobbyboe]

I just hope the commission can cut through the BS, look at the numbers, come up with a logical conclusion and not cave into people that have an agenda.

 

[BuzzH]

Lies lies lies....you are one funny guy Buzz. You can twist and turn everything I say anyway you want but I'll stick with what I've been saying all along. Nonres fund 77% of the WG&F pref pt and license fee budget.....that's not a lie...it's fact! Buzz mentioned, "In my world, you want a seat at the table, you pay for it...no free lunch." Sounds like nonres need a head seat at the table?

I bet everyone on this website could care less what you do with your relatives? Relatively speaking it doesn't matter! That's great you are buying tags for your relatives and taking them hunting but not exactly sure how that matters in this discussion. I guess I'll join others and pat you on your back?

Buzz as usual you are slapping a lot of nonres right in the face with your statement about Wyo outside funding? How about RMEF and other national organizations that nonres likely donate just as much or more than Wyo res? It's statements like yours that will likely piss a few nonres off that donate large sums of $ to support Wyoming elk and other wildlife! I wonder how many of those nonres that support Wyo wildlife will pull the plug on donations, pref pt fees, etc if nonres limited tags are cut in 1/2?

I think it's a little wild that there is so much hatred towards nonres that support 77% of the pref pt and license fee budget and offer life to small town revenue. If 90/10 does happen in Wyo nonres are welcome in Colo. I'm sure the small towns appreciate your business if they aren't welcome in Wyo!

What NR's might those be that are making all these big "donations" you speak of? Can you give an example, of say...one?

Also, there is no hatred for NR's hunters.

In your mind, and the mind of many others on this board and others, Residents wanting similar allocations that Residents in other States enjoy....equals hatred for NR's. To Residents its a fairness issue and we want to be treated fairly.

Residents wanting more opportunity for Residents has not a thing to do with "hating" anyone.

That's your warped interpretation of Residents having the ability to manage our wildlife.

If anything, there is clear hatred by NR's toward Residents because we want to manage our wildlife for the Residents of the State and to benefit our Residents. You know, how its supposed to work and how it LEGALLY works. How all other 49 states work.

If you don't like it, Residents don't really care...but that does not mean we hate NR's, only that Residents should rightfully manage our wildlife how we see fit.

Exactly why 90-10 for the big 5 and eventually for all species is going to happen. Time and pressure are on the side of Residents, count on it.