Would you buy this scope?

[Speaks]

I know many hunters, some with rather nice equipment, that think I'm certifiably insane for shooting a couple hundred rounds of .223 over the course of a month.

Most American men seem to think being a good shot is a birth rite that they inherited somehow requiring no instruction or practice and are perplexed when it does not just work out that way.

 

[Formidilosus]

For me, has to come in at or below the magic number or it’s a non-starter. It’s made in the same factory as the SWFA 3-15x and 3-9x. It’s going to be a tough sell to me to convince me that this is worth twice as much as one of those.

Those two scopes aren’t made by the same company.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Those two scopes aren’t made by the same company.

Someone already corrected me on the 3-15x. But LOW made the gen1 3-9x, right? Or is the collective wisdom of the Internet wrong (wouldn’t be the first time)?

 

[Formidilosus]

Someone already corrected me on the 3-15x. But LOW made the gen1 3-9x, right? Or is the collective wisdom of the Internet wrong (wouldn’t be the first time)?

The 3-9x is LOW.

 

[betelgeuse]

Odysseus has nothing on this thread.

 

[1000yards]

G

Post in thread 'What’s the deal with SWFA scopes?'

Aug 20, 2021

The less expensive SWFA SS line are/were made by Kenko in Japan. All the fixed power rear focus. Did this change? From my understanding their HD scopes are made by LOW and maybe a couple others.

• GMB54-120

It's funny looking at that thread, more than four years later SWFA still has inventory issues.

 

[Dobermann]

Odysseus has nothing on this thread.

This thread is rookie numbers. You should see the 223 thread.

And then see what happens when guys refuse to read it and ask a question that's already been answered ... 223 times.

 

[Dobermann]

People want to act like big margins are a bad thing. They aren't. The whole point of starting an actual business is to be profitable. If a consumer feels that they are getting good value for their dollar, that's the end game.

Many people might be surprised at how high the margins are on some scopes ... I'm not going to post the details here, as I don't want to derail the thread, but if you go back and listen to one of Frank's podcasts, he quotes how much it actually costs to make some scopes ... from memory, even he was surprised when he found out. And I think if many hunters found out, they'd be outraged.

This creates two key issues; first, some companies make large profits by selling junk when they could make something quality and still be profitable. Second, consumers become inoculated to think that 'quality scopes must cost $x' when that isn't the case. This is not the model of flawless capitalism in my high school economics textbook of consumers having all the information they need, and the choices they want, to get the outcomes they need.

Form has posted many times here about how the industry is not necessarily interested in either making stuff that works, standing by what they produce, or understanding what we need.

 

[nm.otter]

Free markets are a bit like frictionless machines: They're a thought exercise given to help you understand basic concepts. Try actually building one and you either quickly give up -- or slowly lose your mind.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Last time Jake wandered around with a Rokstok at SHOT show/Hotel, he had the Swat team after him. Let’s see what happens when he’s wandering around with a UM scope in his pocket

He should mount the scope to one of those dummy stocks and walk around with it this year. Really push the limit.

 

[Wprinkle]

Publicly.

True

 

[Speaks]

On the margin question I think people mix up gross margin and operating margin. You can have a great gross margin but a challenging operating margin and there is lots that goes into that. Also just keep in mind that thin margins dont drive innovation because innovation requires investment and risk. You simply dont do that to come of it with small operating margins, you make large risky bets when the reward is high margins.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I’m really curious how many of these are being made in the first run. I don’t expect to find that out, but I am curious about it.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

There’s a LOT of pressure on this scope idea - I just want to put out there that while I’d like to get one, it’s so much better to wait and have it proven rather than rush Dev to market. The clambering shows there’s a market, but there’s so many “when can I buy this” posts before “this” is even a thing. I really hope the production run is significant and able to absorb all of us wanting it, x2.

 

[Kyguy]

It's funny looking at that thread, more than four years later SWFA still has inventory issues.

From what I've read, it's the business model. The agreements they have with the manufacturers are that their scopes get ran when the OEM has gaps in production. There's no hard delivery date for production. That agreement keeps the prices down. If they forced hard dates for product like the other manufacturers, the cost of the scopes would probably double.

 

[Formidilosus]

There’s a LOT of pressure on this scope idea - I just want to put out there that while I’d like to get one, it’s so much better to wait and have it proven rather than rush Dev to market. The clambering shows there’s a market, but there’s so many “when can I buy this” posts before “this” is even a thing. I really hope the production run is significant and able to absorb all of us wanting it, x2.

The scopes won’t be sold until they are meeting the requirements.


And, no- I do not think that the initial order will be large enough to meet demand. Without talking out of turn- they (S2H) have to pay for the scopes on receipt. I highly doubt they are going to order and hope 500 or 1,000 scopes sell quickly.

 

[nm.otter]

I remember Jeff Huber did an interview on a podcast a few years ago where he discussed 5x as being optimal, 6x as possible, but above that as introducing issues.

Really looking forward to the second iteration (smaller erector range, lighter weight) S2H scope. 4x or 5x is entirely sufficient, especially if it holds clarity across its entire range.

2.5-12.5x, anyone?

 

[Formidilosus]

Really looking forward to the second iteration (smaller erector range, lighter weight) S2H scope. 4X or 5X is entirely sufficient, especially if it holds clarity across its entire range.

2.5-12.5X, anyone?

That would be the same use case as the 3-18x.

 

[nm.otter]

I'm 100% in for a 3-18x, assuming I can get one. Still looking forward to a bit less stretch with a bit less weight once that becomes an option.

 

[WCT3]

I will probably get a 3-18 only because the price point is right for what's offered. But if/when a lighter model is released (ideally in a 3-12 or 4-12 and around 20-22oz) I will 100% buy one even if the it's more expensive.