Why the NR HATE?? Let's fix it!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bobbyboe

WKR
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
600
I agree with this. And every Wyoming resident hunter I know also supports non res opportunities.
The way these threads go is like the residents decide this. We aren’t seeing these changes on ballots or pushing them during legislature but admittedly I don’t hang out with any outfitters. There are no pitchfork wielding resident hunters at the capitol screaming for fewer non res hunter opportunities.
I don’t know what the sweet spot is but regardless, there will be complaining, and probably still not from resident hunters.

Your BHA board chair, Buzz Hettick is one of the biggest and loudest voices in reducing NR opportunities in Wy. He is a huge reason why sheep, goats and moose have been reduced to 90/10. He is in favor of dropping deer, elk and antelope to 90/10 too. He’s pushed hard for the NR tag increases also. BHA Wyoming is no friend of NR’s and they have the ear of the people who pull the strings.
 

KurtR

WKR
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
3,553
Location
South Dakota
Your right, nobody here on Rokslide is trashing anyone.
I was referencing hunters I know personally here in SD and other states, I have a buddy in another western state that tells me he doesn't like nonresidents in his home state. I don't understand it. His head about exploded when I told him people from other countries could hunt his state as nonresidents too! ha ha
If you were raised here hating blue platers was a second hobby in the fall. haha
 

wyogoat

WKR
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
573
Location
Wyoming
Your BHA board chair, Buzz Hettick is one of the biggest and loudest voices in reducing NR opportunities in Wy. He is a huge reason why sheep, goats and moose have been reduced to 90/10. He is in favor of dropping deer, elk and antelope to 90/10 too. He’s pushed hard for the NR tag increases also. BHA Wyoming is no friend of NR’s and they have the ear of the people who pull the strings.
Not my BHA chair. And I don’t know him so I stand behind NO ONE I KNOW does those things.
 

BBob

WKR
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
3,613
Location
Southern AZ
Outfitters
IMO it was the out of state outfitters that started this whole mess, at least in AZ. It seems like overnight they discovered the $$$ to be made on the Strip and Kiabab and all over the state for elk. It's been all downhill from there.
There may be a time when residents looks to the non-resident hunters for help in that fight and they might not answer the call
I can get over the non-res, they are mostly people that want to hunt just like me. I do hold a grudge with some outfitters. They were/are greedy unethical suckers that don't give a damn about us unguided folk.
 
OP
Schoolhousegrizz
Joined
Nov 27, 2021
Messages
356
It seems like its Residents vs Non-Residents, Outfitters and Land Owners.

There will come a time in the not so distant future when hunting is attacked on a large scale. I would think as hunter I would want as many allies in that fight as possible. There may be a time when residents looks to the non-resident hunters for help in that fight and they might not answer the call
Yep!
 

CorbLand

WKR
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
6,656
It seems like its Residents vs Non-Residents, Outfitters and Land Owners.

There will come a time in the not so distant future when hunting is attacked on a large scale. I would think as hunter I would want as many allies in that fight as possible. There may be a time when residents looks to the non-resident hunters for help in that fight and they might not answer the call
This is kind of a funny take on the situation in my opinion because quite frankly, a state could give 50% to NR and I really dont think they would show up to help. The most generous state in the west to NR asked for people to donate to CRWM to help fight the wolf and lion issues. There was a thread started about it and the first post was someone bitching and asking why they should help when they dont give tags? This state gives out over double the percentage of most other western states and has for decades. It wasnt enough. How many do they have to give out before people will send 5 bucks? What about 10?

I live within an hour of two borders and have helped with a handful of projects. One nonresident has showed up to help with those.

I really just don't buy it.

If NR want more tags, the number one thing you should be doing is supporting habitat and projects to help increase herd sizes. 10% of 100,000 is still double 10% of 50,000. The single biggest loss of hunting opportunity in Utah has come from tag cuts. We are down nearly 75% of deer tags in less than 40 years. If we could get back to giving out even half those tags, nearly all NR that applied for a 2023 general season deer tag here would have drawn.

@Schoolhousegrizz, if you want your kids to be able to hunt all over the west, the split isnt what will prevent them from it. The loss of tag allocation is what will do it. I have ran the numbers for average Utah general season deer units. If we dont change the trend we are on, and you have a kid that is between about 0-5 years old, you can all but count on them not getting a general season rifle deer tag before they are 21.

The biggest battle NR are always going to fight within most western states is, there isnt enough tags to supply residents with what they want, let alone NR. You are looking at someone that lives there, and saying "you should wait a little longer so I can come hunt your state and you should be thankful for that." Good luck.

These threads are always interesting and every time I read them, I generally think that the part that isnt being said out loud is that we all recognize things are not looking up for hunting regardless of where we live. Between legislative attacks and tag numbers, its probably not getting better and the solution we have all silently decided is to get what we can, while we can.

Maybe what we should be talking about instead of the split, is how do we increase the pie as a whole? Changing the split doesnt benefit everyone, increasing the pie does. Changing the split is nothing more than taking 20 bucks from your left hand, putting it in your right and thinking you are richer. But the simple truth of that is, it would take effort on every ones part and people would have to spend some time and/or money. Its easier just to bitch.
 
Last edited:

Gobbler36

WKR
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
2,358
Location
None your business
This is kind of a funny take on the situation in my opinion because quite frankly, a state could give 50% to NR and I really dont think they would show up to help. The most generous state in the west to NR asked for people to donate to CRWM to help fight the wolf and lion issues. There was a thread started about it and the first post was someone bitching and asking why they should help when they dont give tags? This state gives out over double the percentage of most other western states and has for decades. It wasnt enough. How many do they have to give out before people will send 5 bucks? What about 10?

I live within an hour of two borders and have helped with a handful of projects. One nonresident has showed up to help with those.

I really just don't buy it.

If NR want more tags, the number one thing you should be doing is supporting habitat and projects to help increase herd sizes. 10% of 100,000 is still double 10% of 50,000. The single biggest lost of hunting opportunity in Utah has come from tag cuts. We are down nearly 75% of deer tags in less than 40 years. If we could get back to giving out even half those tags, nearly all NR that applied for a 2023 general season deer tag here would have drawn.

@Schoolhousegrizz, if you want your kids to be able to hunt all over the west, the split isnt what will prevent them from it. The loss of tag allocation is what will do it. I have ran the numbers for average Utah general season deer units. If we dont change the trend we are on, and you have a kid that is between about 0-5 years old, you can all but count on them not getting a general season rifle deer tag before they are 21.

The biggest battle NR are always going to fight within most western states is, there isnt enough tags to supply residents with what they want, let alone NR. You are looking at someone that lives there, and saying "you should wait a little longer so I can come hunt your state and you should be thankful for that." Good luck.

These threads are always interesting and every time I read them, I generally think that the part that isnt being said out loud is that we all recognize things are not looking up for hunting regardless of where we live. Between legislative attacks and tag numbers, its probably not getting better and the solution we have all silently decided is to get what we can, while we can.

Maybe what we should be talking about instead of the split, is how do we increase the pie as a whole? Changing the split doesnt benefit everyone, increasing the pie does. Changing the split is nothing more than taking 20 bucks from your left hand, putting it in your right and thinking you are richer. But the simple truth of that is, it would take effort on every ones part and people would have to spend some time and/or money. Its easier just to bitch.
Mic Drop Post
thanks for posting
 
OP
Schoolhousegrizz
Joined
Nov 27, 2021
Messages
356
This is kind of a funny take on the situation in my opinion because quite frankly, a state could give 50% to NR and I really dont think they would show up to help. The most generous state in the west to NR asked for people to donate to CRWM to help fight the wolf and lion issues. There was a thread started about it and the first post was someone bitching and asking why they should help when they dont give tags? This state gives out over double the percentage of most other western states and has for decades. It wasnt enough. How many do they have to give out before people will send 5 bucks? What about 10?

I live within an hour of two borders and have helped with a handful of projects. One nonresident has showed up to help with those.

I really just don't buy it.

If NR want more tags, the number one thing you should be doing is supporting habitat and projects to help increase herd sizes. 10% of 100,000 is still double 10% of 50,000. The single biggest loss of hunting opportunity in Utah has come from tag cuts. We are down nearly 75% of deer tags in less than 40 years. If we could get back to giving out even half those tags, nearly all NR that applied for a 2023 general season deer tag here would have drawn.

@Schoolhousegrizz, if you want your kids to be able to hunt all over the west, the split isnt what will prevent them from it. The loss of tag allocation is what will do it. I have ran the numbers for average Utah general season deer units. If we dont change the trend we are on, and you have a kid that is between about 0-5 years old, you can all but count on them not getting a general season rifle deer tag before they are 21.

The biggest battle NR are always going to fight within most western states is, there isnt enough tags to supply residents with what they want, let alone NR. You are looking at someone that lives there, and saying "you should wait a little longer so I can come hunt your state and you should be thankful for that." Good luck.

These threads are always interesting and every time I read them, I generally think that the part that isnt being said out loud is that we all recognize things are not looking up for hunting regardless of where we live. Between legislative attacks and tag numbers, its probably not getting better and the solution we have all silently decided is to get what we can, while we can.

Maybe what we should be talking about instead of the split, is how do we increase the pie as a whole? Changing the split doesnt benefit everyone, increasing the pie does. Changing the split is nothing more than taking 20 bucks from your left hand, putting it in your right and thinking you are richer. But the simple truth of that is, it would take effort on every ones part and people would have to spend some time and/or money. Its easier just to bitch.
Great points, I Ike the idea of increasing the pie!
 

87TT

WKR
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
3,435
Location
Idaho
How about you can only have one deer and elk tag a year no matter which state you hunt? Whether you are resident or not. And only hunt one state a year. No more getting tags for multiple states. There would be more tags for NR to choose from.

Not really realistic like most of the other far fetched wishful thinking going on .
 

mavinwa2

WKR
Joined
Sep 11, 2018
Messages
533
Location
Res WA ST, winter>Gilbert AZ , NR>AZ, UT, NM, CO.
all I know is this...
I worked, saved, sacrificed all my life to achieve an OK retirement. Over those years, listened to other retired hunter's great experiences hunting other states. Dreaming of and Hoping one day that I would have the TIME to do so.
I'm no retired professional career or rich guy. Barely have enough retirement funds to enjoy my life, if my health remains good. Not getting any younger, that's for sure, not being able to do what I used to physically.

Just the hunting license fees for NR are expensive, and only yield points for the most part. Then Tags-$$$ if drawn, then add all the associated camping, travel & other costs. But somehow, I find a way to meet these expenses, it isn't easy.

Wish states would have more programs for seniors 65+, non-residents included. After all, they offer youth programs that didn't exist when I grew up hunting in my younger years. Oh, to have the youth hunting opportunities today that weren't available in my youth!
 

CorbLand

WKR
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
6,656
Fantasy! What’s the plan to significantly increase the number of animals the land will hold so everyone can hunt them that wants to hunt them? Never ever going to happen. Better get used to the current supply because it’s never going to increase enough to ever satisfy the demand.
Its about as big of a fantasy as thinking that changing the split will suddenly make it better for everyone and people will be happy.

We will never get to the point of being able to satisfy everyone and their wants but we can move the needle in a positive direction.
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
302
This is kind of a funny take on the situation in my opinion because quite frankly, a state could give 50% to NR and I really dont think they would show up to help. The most generous state in the west to NR asked for people to donate to CRWM to help fight the wolf and lion issues. There was a thread started about it and the first post was someone bitching and asking why they should help when they dont give tags? This state gives out over double the percentage of most other western states and has for decades. It wasnt enough. How many do they have to give out before people will send 5 bucks? What about 10?

I live within an hour of two borders and have helped with a handful of projects. One nonresident has showed up to help with those.

I really just don't buy it.

If NR want more tags, the number one thing you should be doing is supporting habitat and projects to help increase herd sizes. 10% of 100,000 is still double 10% of 50,000. The single biggest lost of hunting opportunity in Utah has come from tag cuts. We are down nearly 75% of deer tags in less than 40 years. If we could get back to giving out even half those tags, nearly all NR that applied for a 2023 general season deer tag here would have drawn.

@Schoolhousegrizz, if you want your kids to be able to hunt all over the west, the split isnt what will prevent them from it. The loss of tag allocation is what will do it. I have ran the numbers for average Utah general season deer units. If we dont change the trend we are on, and you have a kid that is between about 0-5 years old, you can all but count on them not getting a general season rifle deer tag before they are 21.

The biggest battle NR are always going to fight within most western states is, there isnt enough tags to supply residents with what they want, let alone NR. You are looking at someone that lives there, and saying "you should wait a little longer so I can come hunt your state and you should be thankful for that." Good luck.

These threads are always interesting and every time I read them, I generally think that the part that isnt being said out loud is that we all recognize things are not looking up for hunting regardless of where we live. Between legislative attacks and tag numbers, its probably not getting better and the solution we have all silently decided is to get what we can, while we can.

Maybe what we should be talking about instead of the split, is how do we increase the pie as a whole? Changing the split doesnt benefit everyone, increasing the pie does. Changing the split is nothing more than taking 20 bucks from your left hand, putting it in your right and thinking you are richer. But the simple truth of that is, it would take effort on every ones part and people would have to spend some time and/or money. Its easier just to bitch.
Good post.
What I'll add is:
1. Just because you read one or even a handful of posts of an NR complaining about this or that tag, its just one guy. That person doesn't speak for everyone. We all need to remember that. Resident or Non.
I donated to CRWM and so did alot of other people that don't live in Colorado. I love that state and I'm not going to give it up without a fight. I don't care if I ever draw a tag there.
I like Rokslide, I've gotten a ton of info from here, but sometimes the only posting being done is by the lowest common denominator. And its making things seem worse than they actually are. Its no secret that people engage more on social media when they are angry, and tag reductions make people angry.

2. With charity usually, you can donate time or money. Generally, residents are %1000 better at donating their time, and NR are, generally good at donating money in lieu of donating time. Good or bad, its always been that way. Its not very realistic to expect someone from Ohio or the Carolinas to travel to western Wyoming for a weekend habitat project. People need to help whatever way they can. And for most NR, that will be donating cash. Even if it 5 or 10 bucks like you said, just do something!

One problem I see is these orgs do a terrible job getting the word out on these projects. Most time you don't hear about habitat projects until after the fact. Unless you follow/are a member of these orgs or go to the meetings, you will never know they are going on. And social media "influencers" certainly don't give a crap to get the word out. If social media is this great tool for uniting hunters behind causes like "influencers" claim, they better start using it for that purpose.
A bigger pie is benefits everyone.
 
Joined
Apr 28, 2021
Messages
971
I always like the "animal - land" disconnect . Without habitat and land to hunt on it really doesnt matter who" owns " the animal. I believe limited hunting on federal lands will slowly become the anti's strategy while we are infighting between NR's and R's . Posted previously about philosophy of "Re-wilding of America" . There are powerful groups lobbying to introduce apex predators wolves/grizzlies to manage elk / deer on federal lands and get rid of 2 legged predators . These naturally managed ecosystems/sanctuaries proposed are huge tracts of federal land that will possibly be off limits to hunting. These changes will be made in DC at the Federal level far from the people and places they will affect. Stepping right over the states. Sound like a conspiracy theory ? That could never happen ! Never say never
 

Bump79

WKR
Joined
Oct 5, 2020
Messages
938
The biggest thing that drives me nuts is that the vast, vast majority of the land out in our western states is federally owned. Meaning that non-residents are subsidizing resident hunters access. It is so short sided to me and just doesn't make sense. People need to target their complaints more accurately. In Montana the frustration isn't with the number of non-residents. It's the concentration of non-residents. The general tag system is fine for residents but causes so much issues with over concentration and over hunting of game. Change the draw system - it's 2024 and there's tons of software & YouTube to make applying easier. We can make it more comprehensive to make everyone's experience better.

Eastern Montana mule deer is a prime example of this. The hunting quality has gone downhill due to increased pressure (non-res and resident) but Fish and Game isn't keeping up. This is what Matt Rinella and Hunt Quietly should focus on more. It's not just that social is increasing pressure. It's that they aren't managing the pressure.

I see people advocate for keeping federal lands federal and want more public land (federally) - but then hate on non-residents. It's a non-sensical position.
 
OP
Schoolhousegrizz
Joined
Nov 27, 2021
Messages
356
Good post.
What I'll add is:
1. Just because you read one or even a handful of posts of an NR complaining about this or that tag, its just one guy. That person doesn't speak for everyone. We all need to remember that. Resident or Non.
I donated to CRWM and so did alot of other people that don't live in Colorado. I love that state and I'm not going to give it up without a fight. I don't care if I ever draw a tag there.
I like Rokslide, I've gotten a ton of info from here, but sometimes the only posting being done is by the lowest common denominator. And its making things seem worse than they actually are. Its no secret that people engage more on social media when they are angry, and tag reductions make people angry.

2. With charity usually, you can donate time or money. Generally, residents are %1000 better at donating their time, and NR are, generally good at donating money in lieu of donating time. Good or bad, its always been that way. Its not very realistic to expect someone from Ohio or the Carolinas to travel to western Wyoming for a weekend habitat project. People need to help whatever way they can. And for most NR, that will be donating cash. Even if it 5 or 10 bucks like you said, just do something!

One problem I see is these orgs do a terrible job getting the word out on these projects. Most time you don't hear about habitat projects until after the fact. Unless you follow/are a member of these orgs or go to the meetings, you will never know they are going on. And social media "influencers" certainly don't give a crap to get the word out. If social media is this great tool for uniting hunters behind causes like "influencers" claim, they better start using it for that purpose.
A bigger pie is benefits everyone.
Well said
 

CorbLand

WKR
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
6,656
If you can't increase the size of the pie with conservation, then what's the point in funding it all together?

Either it does something, or it doesn't.
I always smile when people say we cant do anything. Less than 100 years ago, animals were in far far worse shape than they are today. Kind of proves that something can be done.
 

S.Clancy

WKR
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
2,313
Location
Montana
The biggest thing that drives me nuts is that the vast, vast majority of the land out in our western states is federally owned. Meaning that non-residents are subsidizing resident hunters access. It is so short sided to me and just doesn't make sense. People need to target their complaints more accurately. In Montana the frustration isn't with the number of non-residents. It's the concentration of non-residents. The general tag system is fine for residents but causes so much issues with over concentration and over hunting of game. Change the draw system - it's 2024 and there's tons of software & YouTube to make applying easier. We can make it more comprehensive to make everyone's experience better.

Eastern Montana mule deer is a prime example of this. The hunting quality has gone downhill due to increased pressure (non-res and resident) but Fish and Game isn't keeping up. This is what Matt Rinella and Hunt Quietly should focus on more. It's not just that social is increasing pressure. It's that they aren't managing the pressure.

I see people advocate for keeping federal lands federal and want more public land (federally) - but then hate on non-residents. It's a non-sensical position.
I mean, some of it is that. Then take 2 consecutive droughts, one the worst in recorded history, and you have a 50% drop in numbers.

However, it is really concerning that 50%+ of mule deer buck take in R6 and R7 is by NR, IMO that shouldn't be allowed to happen. I can see regional quotas in the future and perhaps Type 1 and Type 2 tags (public and private, respectively). I think the Type 2 tags will be needed to get MOGA onboard which basically will assure the commission or legislation gets passed. Just saying that makes me want to puke.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top