Why is the .270 dying?

[FredH]

If you follow that logic to the end, then .270 isn't the answer because most shooters can't take advantage of what .270 does better than .223.

Snicker snicker you missed the point.

 

[UnckleBob]

-06, 257 weatherby (now with fast twist rates), and a laundry list of popular quarter bore wildcats all came to be due to new high BC 25 cal bullets. I can get head stamped 25 GT and 25x47 brass as well. Why do you think that isn't happening at near the scale for 277s?

I do think the 270 would give up some of it's "lesser recoiling than a 30-06" allure if it were more tailored to heavier high bc bullets.

All new bullets in .277

270 Caliber 170 Grain Elite Hunter Rifle Bullet

Elite Hunter Bullets are identical in construction, shape and performance to the Berger Hybrid Target series, except they utilize a thinner J4 Precision Jacket for rapid expansion on game animals.

bergerbullets.com

270 Caliber 165gr AccuBond Long Range

270 Caliber 165gr AccuBond® Long Range NOTE: Requires a Minimum 1-9" Twist

www.nosler.com

270 Caliber 160gr Partition (50ct)

270 Caliber 160gr Partition®

www.nosler.com

Barnes has a heavy .277 bullet
Sierra has a 175g 277 bullet

Basically, Hornady is the only major hunting bullet maker without a heavy for caliber bullet because they want people to buy 6.5PRC ammo.

Change is coming. Right now, people can buy a factory x-bolt 270 with a 1/7.5 twist barrel.

 

[FredH]

And

Fast twist barels coming in on the shelf rifles designed to handle the heaviest for caliber bullets, the modern times. No genZ here, maybe I'm having a midlife crisis.......

both 243 and 270 rifles are being manufactured with faster twist barrels. I have a Remington 700 in 243 that came with a 1-8 twist. Hunting load this year uses the 85 gr. Sierra HPBT at 3250 fps.

 

[FredH]

All new bullets in .277

270 Caliber 170 Grain Elite Hunter Rifle Bullet

Elite Hunter Bullets are identical in construction, shape and performance to the Berger Hybrid Target series, except they utilize a thinner J4 Precision Jacket for rapid expansion on game animals.

bergerbullets.com

270 Caliber 165gr AccuBond Long Range

270 Caliber 165gr AccuBond® Long Range NOTE: Requires a Minimum 1-9" Twist

www.nosler.com

270 Caliber 160gr Partition (50ct)

270 Caliber 160gr Partition®

www.nosler.com

Barnes has a heavy .277 bullet
Sierra has a 175g 277 bullet

Basically, Hornady is the only major hunting bullet maker without a heavy for caliber bullet because they want people to buy 6.5PRC ammo.

Change is coming. Right now, people can buy a factory x-bolt 270 with a 1/7.5 twist barrel.

Interesting. The future is wide open.

 

[nm.otter]

The Creedmoor only offers precision ammo because it was and is a target cartridge. Is it the lesser recoil? Are you saying that it's way less ability as a hunting cartridge is more? I never said the 270 was the end all of 1000 yard target cartridges, it is a hunting cartridge.

Nobody here has called the .270 anything less than what it is: A capable and reliable hunting cartridge with a well-earned 100-year history.

What many of us have said is that if you had to buy a new rifle -- today -- that 6.5 Creedmoor is generally a better choice.

 

[The Guide]

The Creedmoor only offers precision ammo because it was and is a target cartridge

Can you define a "target cartridge" please. Every cartridge I've ever seen was just an engine for launching a projectile. It provides the horsepower to give a projectile velocity, nothing more or less. Every cartridge should be loaded to the best precision possible. Why would they change the way they load ammo based on the stamp on the case? Maybe, just maybe, some cartridge designs just are easier to load for higher precision because the bullets for that caliber are of new design with better external ballistics for use in faster twist barrels than those classic designs commonly used in cartridges like the 270 Winchester with slow twist barrels. If the appropriate twist for accuracy in a 243, 264, and 284 is 1/8", then why is the 277 a 1/10"?

Jay

 

[Anschutz]

The Creedmoor only offers precision ammo because it was and is a target cartridge.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is alive and well today because of hunters. Where Creedmoor Sports failed to make the 6.5 a viable match cartridge is their failure to commission a requisite rifle to go with Hornady's cartridge and the real problem is, it doesn't really fit in any discipline. Sure, you could build a 28" 6.5CM on an Eliseo chassis but then you have a rifle that is mediocre at best for all NRA disciplines and too light for PRS. The 6CM is a better option for factory ammo. No animal has ever argued with a 147ELDM in the lungs.

As far as the .270, it's a darling cartridge, it's not perfect but as Alabama would say "It's close enough to perfect for me." I love the .243 as well and I'll always have my .243 Handi-Rifle, but my .243 Savage will eventually be replaced by a Tikka with a 6CM barrel. I don't see a cartridge I'd replace the .270 with for my desires in the field. My kids' deer rifle will be a 6CM. The plan is for 3 Tikkas, one for each of us.

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[Dan Carey]

6mm PPC is an accuracy designed cartridge. Holds most of the current short range benchrest world records.

 

[roadrunner]

the increased BC and SD and increased selection of said projectiles in 6.5mm.

Driven by marketing. Marketers caught on to the increasing trend by the persona that fits the .264 crowd.

Had the same been done for the .277, it would be an entirely different discussion...

 

[xsn10s]

I started thread which caused a real s&$t storm discussing how the new CM and PRC's don't perform any better than the older cartridges. That the newer cartridges sell because of marketing. People keep bringing up barrel twist rated and how the newer cartridges are more efficient. Well you can get rifles rebarreled. How many times do we read that barrels are expendable parts. I posted my 260 AI with a 147gr ELDM going 2918 fps COAL 2.835". Shoots out of a BDL magbox and in in 6.5 PRC factory ammo specs. Of course that's just not "efficient", "optimal", blah blah blah lol. There is nothing wrong with the older cartridges, they can perform extremely well especially if you handload. My buddy's go to is a 270 Win, for longer range elk he'll take his 300 WM. But I doubt he'll ever get rid of his 270 Win, most of his Oregon elk fell to it.

 

[Anschutz]

6mm PPC is an accuracy designed cartridge. Holds most of the current short range benchrest world records.

The primary issue with the PPC these days is the availability of the 6ARC in Factory rifles/ammo/components and ability to build a 6BR, Dasher, BRX, etc. on a .308 bolt face.

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[Grumpystilskin]

Just my .02 cents…. I find a 270 Win to be a reliable(if not boring) killer of most things under 500lbs and 300 yards. That’s what I love about it, no fan fare. Just results. All done of course with one load, a 150gr Partition @ 2850fps.
Thanks, Tom

 

[FredH]

Nobody here has called the .270 anything less than what it is: A capable and reliable hunting cartridge with a well-earned 100-year history.

What many of us have said is that if you had to buy a new rifle -- today -- that 6.5 Creedmoor is generally a better choice.

Explain how it is a better choice unless I am mostly interested in target shooting? I can load a 270 down to equal Creedmoor ballistics if needed.

 

[FredH]

Just my .02 cents…. I find a 270 Win to be a reliable(if not boring) killer of most things under 500lbs and 300 yards. That’s what I love about it, no fan fare. Just results. All done of course with one load, a 150gr Partition @ 2850fps.
Thanks, Tom

Over decades of use under many different hunting conditions I found the 270 with good controlled expansion 150 grain bullets to be a reliable killer of game up through the size of Elk. I had one for a loaner rifle and it stacked up a huge pile of game.

 

[3325]

Because if your hat has a flat brim you’re not allowed to own one.

You’re not allowed to own one if you wear Sitka gear either:

 

[FredH]

The 6.5 Creedmoor is alive and well today because of hunters. Where Creedmoor Sports failed to make the 6.5 a viable match cartridge is their failure to commission a requisite rifle to go with Hornady's cartridge and the real problem is, it doesn't really fit in any discipline. Sure, you could build a 28" 6.5CM on an Eliseo chassis but then you have a rifle that is mediocre at best for all NRA disciplines and too light for PRS. The 6CM is a better option for factory ammo. No animal has ever argued with a 147ELDM in the lungs.

As far as the .270, it's a darling cartridge, it's not perfect but as Alabama would say "It's close enough to perfect for me." I love the .243 as well and I'll always have my .243 Handi-Rifle, but my .243 Savage will eventually be replaced by a Tikka with a 6CM barrel. I don't see a cartridge I'd replace the .270 with for my desires in the field. My kids' deer rifle will be a 6CM. The plan is for 3 Tikkas, one for each of us.

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Sure , interesting that the last three Elk hunts I was on the only 6.5 of any sort present was a 6.5 Creed and it was a backup rifle. Not a large following among elk hunters. I also agree the 6.5 CM was built into a niche that it actually missed. I give it every bit of credit for being an accurate cartridge with good factory support. It doesn't match 6.5x55 ballistics or that cartridges rich history as a match cartridge and it is better than the 260 in that it's neck lengthens at a shorter rate. I see the 6.5 CM popularity leveling out as people find that fragmenting bullets don't provide what good controlled expansion bullets offer, a lesson learned several times over the years. And that shooting at extended ranges favors those with elevated skill levels and luck.

I too may rebarrel with a 6CM when one of the barrels of either of my 243 rifles finally wears out.

 

[FredH]

You’re not allowed to own one if you wear Sitka gear either:

View attachment 918446

Jack was an eloquent son of a gun. He was also an English teacher.

 

[Tanner]

Driven by marketing. Marketers caught on to the increasing trend by the persona that fits the .264 crowd.

Had the same been done for the .277, it would be an entirely different discussion...

Pretty sure 142 SMK’s were around a long long time prior to heavy 6.5mm marketing.

 

[FredH]

Can you define a "target cartridge" please. Every cartridge I've ever seen was just an engine for launching a projectile. It provides the horsepower to give a projectile velocity, nothing more or less. Every cartridge should be loaded to the best precision possible. Why would they change the way they load ammo based on the stamp on the case? Maybe, just maybe, some cartridge designs just are easier to load for higher precision because the bullets for that caliber are of new design with better external ballistics for use in faster twist barrels than those classic designs commonly used in cartridges like the 270 Winchester with slow twist barrels. If the appropriate twist for accuracy in a 243, 264, and 284 is 1/8", then why is the 277 a 1/10"?

Jay

So it being born into the world as a target cartridge and being loaded with various bullets designed as long range target bullets doesn't count? Hmmm Well it would be a heck of a metal silhouette cartridge for sure. As for being designed as a target cartridge chambers often have tighter throats, freebores are usually configured for match style bullets and shoulders are often sharper to extend case life and make for more consistant headspace. Does that sound like the 6.5 CM to you?
The reason the 270 has generally a 1-10 twist being that flat based spitzer bullets of a weight commonly found when it was designed were not all that long and round nose bullets were very popular at that time also. Optical sights were not especially common back then either and those that were available could be considered crude with generally low magnification.
I have 3 270 rifles, all three are fine shooters. My least accurate is an Encore, this from a tracking test of an old Bausch and Lomb scope.



These two targets were shot with rifles that had match chambers.

 

[The Guide]

Explain how it is a better choice unless I am mostly interested in target shooting? I can load a 270 down to equal Creedmoor ballistics if needed.

The number of people who are handloaders in the realm of total hunters/shooters is very small. Can you show me any factory loaded precision target loads for the 270? Right now on Midway USA, there are 75 offerings for the 6.5 Creedmoor that have "hunting" bullets loaded in them. There are 32 offerings with "match" or "target" bullets in them. Doesn't sound like just a target cartridge to me.

Jay