Why are you shooting PRC, AI, creedmoor, or WSM?

[whoami-72]

The 300WSM was born in 2001 followed by the 270WSM and 7mm WSM in 2002 and the 325 WSM in 2005. The 6.5 Creedmoor was introduced in 2007 while the 6mm Creedmoor version wasn't SAAMI approved until 2017 even though I has been wildcatted and used since right after the 6.5 Creedmoor was released. Not sure what AI cartridges you are referring to but the 280AI was standardized by Nosler in 2008 when it started selling loaded ammo and brass for it and chambering their own rifles in that cartridge. The PRC family is newer but the 6.5 PRC was released in 2018 followed by the 300 PRC in 2019 and the new kid on the block, the 7mm PRC in 2022.

Ammo cost for these cartridges are pretty equal when buying the same quality of ammo. This may not be seen at your local gun shop as there are huge variables in localized retail pricing but overall for the same brand and style, prices are very similar for 30-06 to 300 PRC ammo (Midway USA price on 30-06 Hornady Precision Hunter 178 ELDX @ $50.99 and 300 PRC Precision Hunter 212 ELDX @ $55.29) while both the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5 PRC can be had for $45 and $50, respectively.

As for the 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 Winchester being "questionable" for elk, I'd suggest you rethink your statement. Using all metrics both of those cartridges have more than enough killing qualities for shots on elk to 400 yards with all but the lowest performance hunting ammunition. My nephew killed his first elk at 275 yards this weekend with a 6.5CM and the high shoulder shot dropped it in its tracks. The 308 has killed elk with ease for over 70 years.

Jay

I gotacha, I'd still call anything made in the 2000's as relatively new. Not as new as the PRC's for sure bit still way newer than the tried and trues.

I can get .30-06 and 6.5 creed precision hunter for just under $40 a box locally. I didn't check prices on every other caliber but it seemed like the others started at $55. Maybe 7 rem mag was lower. Either way though, I'm still able to get corelokt and other "hunting level ammo" in .30-06 and I wasn't seeing that in most of the newer calibers.

So, my personal .308's and 6.5 creeds were running typical soft point loads when I realized that they didnt have as much energy and velocity as expected especially because my m308 was 16" long barrel. I didn't feel comfortable with the energy or velocity levels on them past 250-325. I was able to get better results with SSt's/more aerodynamic bullets and felt more confident in 300 yards. Anything can and will kill further than the rules of thumbs say for sure. I just didn't want to be close to it personally.

 

[whoami-72]

Back in summer of 2019, I picked up a Tikka in 30-06. This was a rifle intended for elk hunting and they had the rifle I wanted in 30-06 and 300wsm. I wanted the WSM because it was different. But ultimately I went to the 30-06. The gun shop i got it from at the time had 3 offers of ammo for the WSM at twice the cost and 20 or so for the 30-06. Covid hit 6 months the later and I’m not sure if I’ve actually seen 300wsm in stock anywhere in person since. I’m very happy with the choice I made.

Recently the amount of load offerings on the shelf is what has drove my cartridge choices.

The PRCs are great I understand that, but my local shop only have the precision hunter on the shelf. The 7PRC may have a box or two of the match. With this being the case I can’t justify getting one.

Same boat.

 

[whoami-72]

What we are currently seeing is that people are taking AI cartridges, making even more adjustments to them and coming out with their own versions. The 7SAW and the Sheman line of cartridges are good examples of this. Additionally, the sharper shoulder angles and less body taper characteristics of the AI cartridges are being incorporated in even the newly developed cartridges, so I would say that things that work to increase efficiency are finally becoming mainstream within an industry that is notoriously slow to adopt new things.

Interesting, I haven't heard about any of these yet as an average Joe shooter.

 

[robby denning]

I swapped from 7RM to 270WSM back in 2015 because

..I wanted a lighter rifle
...less recoil (didn't want a brake, hurtsies my ears, suppressors not much of a thing back then)
....was only hunting deer
.....didn't want to dial and the 270 is a screamer under 600
.....I was a handloader so wasn't worried about ammo cost

10 seasons later, and having killed 8 bucks/2 elk with it, still pretty happy with it. but when Ryan gets my Rokstock/Tikka/6UM done, I'm gonna try that on a few bucks because...

-less recoil
-screamer for my yardages
-am using UM for my reloads now
-and I'm afraid Ryan, Jake, and Form will judge & belittle me on the podcast if I don't switch lol

 

[oldskool67]

So, I recently was in the market for a new rifle. It was supposed to be my buy once cry once use it for the next 10 years kind of rifle and I was dead set on going with a 300 WSM. And then it hit me, the ammo costs are significantly higher and options are significantly lower for these newer rounds vs the tried and true and I really wouldn't really be gaining much in my case. I think I read/heard somewhere that .30-06 only accounts for ~3% of rifle sales now.......

So, if you're part of the masses switching to the new flavor of the month of PRS, WSM, AI, creedmore, why? Are you in the boat of better ballistics means everything? Is it because of marketing? If you have switched, do you still practice a lot and just increased ammo budgets? Also, for those that are much older than me. Doesn't it feel like these new cartridges are being adopted and pushed super fast? I think I've been into guns for just under a decade but even I can remember the 6.8 spc coming and going as well as 224 valkery, SAUM's etc.

My personal situation: I jumped on the 6.5 creed train after it was the same price as .308 and wont be jumping on any new calibers until ammo situation chills out. I ended up getting a .30-06 this time around because I already have another. I also felt like it has plenty of power for my hunting distances without stepping up to magnum recoils and costs where as the 6.5 creeds and .308's that I have are questionable for hunting elk depending upon distance and bullet type. In effect, its a great middle ground IMO. Lastly, even though I was dead set on 300 wsm and then 7 prc and then 7 rem mag, etc, etc. I ended up realizing that you can still get a ton of decent .30-06 loads for relatively cheap and keep trying different types until you find one your gun likes. My buddies that have newer PRC's have double the cost per box comparing low end to low end and only have a couple of options. Plus, I can reload mine cheaply. Also, even though there guns are better balistically, they still have to hold over for wind and drop just like I do and if i can afford 2x as much ammo as them then i should be mutch better practiced at judging situations. Granted, some of them are the kind of hunters that shoot one or two boxes a year to sight in and call it good where as I'm buying my rifle for next year right now so I can practice year round. Anyway, my personal rambling over. I'm genuinely curious why people are flocking to the new stuff and adopting it so quickly even though it seems like the gains are real but marginal and the costs are high. Who knows, maybe in 10 years you'll see me here again asking why I didn't switch to the new stuff sooner and complaining about not being able to find ammo lol.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into a giant argument that I regret posting lol.

You can’t go wrong with the back to back World War Champion

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

6.5 to 6 creed. Low recoil. Accurate, plentiful factory ammunition. Designed properly for heavy for caliber bullets.

 

[whoami-72]

I swapped from 7RM to 270WSM back in 2015 because

..I wanted a lighter rifle
...less recoil (didn't want a brake, hurtsies my ears, suppressors not much of a thing back then)
....was only hunting deer
.....didn't want to dial and the 270 is a screamer under 600
.....I was a handloader so wasn't worried about ammo cost

10 seasons later, and having killed two elk with it, still pretty happy with it. but when Ryan gets my Rokstock/Tikka/6UM done, I'm gonna try that on a few bucks because...

-less recoil
-screamer for my yardages
-am using UM for my reloads now
-and I'm afraid Ryan, Jake, and Form will judge & belittle me on the podcast if I don't switch lol

Haha I mean people making fun of you is always a good reason lol

 

[HandgunHTR]

-and I'm afraid Ryan, Jake, and Form will judge & belittle me on the podcast if I don't switch lol

I hate to break it to ya, bud, but they are going to do that anyway,

 

[LongWayAround]

6.5 to 6 creed. Low recoil. Accurate, plentiful factory ammunition. Designed properly for heavy for caliber bullets.

This is my reasoning also.

 

[robby denning]

I hate to break it to ya, bud, but they are going to do that anyway,

that explains my constant burning ears

 

[amassi]

You can’t go wrong with the back to back World War Champion

303 British?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kimber7man]

Still wondering why you (OP) bought another 30-06……

 

[Robobiss]

This question would definitely be answered differently (or thought about differently) depending on if you are stuck using factory ammo, or if you roll your own.

If you reload, they’re “all pretty much the same”. As long as you can find/make brass (by using other, maybe easier to get cartridges). Nothing is really that much of a bigger deal than anything else if you can get brass. Some burn more powder, and you get less loads per pound, but that’s about it. Lately, “THE” powder that makes a certain cartridge sing may be hard to find (like RL26), which is unfortunate, but not the end of the world. Buy an 8lber when it’s available.

There are only so many bullet diameters and finding quality projectiles is *very rarely* an issue. With some exceptions, nobody is coming out with new diameter projectiles. They’re all the same handful of diameters that they have been for the last 100 years.

There are a million different powders, but generally speaking, you can load for most magnums with just a couple of different powders. You can load a TON of the Intermediate cartridges with something like H4350. It doesn’t take a huge selection of powders to load *just about* everything rifle wise there is to load within reason. Are you going to be able to get them going “the fastest” without “the” powder for that cartridge? No, but if you have even a small selection, you probably have something pretty close.

An autotrickler and an $80 single stage from the pawn shop in your basement opens the door to shooting just about anything with no worries as long as you can get your hands on a couple-few hundred pieces of brass which is enough to shoot the barrel out of most rifles that aren’t a .223 or a .308

For sub $500 in startup you can shoot whatever you want, as much as you want (as long as you can afford powder, primers, and bullets) without worrying if “if I shoot up this last box, will I be able to find more?”

Some cartridges are just too risky if you only shoot factory and are not financially able to buy a couple cases when you can find it.

 

[TaperPin]

I love the 30-06 - take any new case of equally size and it’s no better than the original. I’m happy to be old school and like to think in terms of MOA and ftlbs, my main rifle is 60 years old, and the 30-06 barrel reminds me of a dude who shot a big polar bear.

20 years from now 1/3 of the new cartridges will stop being supported and the rifles will most go unshot, or rebarreled. The firearms industry has reached the point of better marketing and Hornady simply remakes existing cartridges, supplies brass, dies, ammo and extra heavy bullets and makes a ton of money. I’m sure behind closed doors they laugh about how easy it has been.

Nonetheless, new guns are fun - I have an old school 22-250, but the 22 creed barrel makes me grin - and it was easy. My 6.5-284 is a classic, but I also have a 6.5 PRC - honestly both are very close to the old 270, so really in 60 years since my 270 rolled off the shelf the 6.5’s aren’t much of an improvement. I still want an old school 264 win mag, which wipes the new 6.5’s and should have been more popular than it was. I poo poo the 6.5 creed, but ammo is cheap and it’s not hard to shoot.

.223’s suck balls, but I have one because they are so cheap and don’t heat up barrels too bad for a high volume varmint hunt. Heck, I’ll probably get another when it’s shot out - maybe Hornady will remake the .222 mag and all the fun kids will want that. The 204 Ruger is a better varmint round than the 223, and most 6mm’s are better for bigger things.

As a hand loader, there’s literally nothing a 6 creed should be better at. I might buy a barrel eventually just to say I have one and don’t like it. lol My ancient .243 Super Rockchucker (6mm-06) makes me smile - a regular old 25-06 is better in almost every way, but 6 creed will outsell 25-06 until I’m dead and gone.

The 7 PRC sounded great since it was tailor made for RL26, but take away that powder and it’s not so great. I’m an old school fan of the 7 rem mag, but I’d gladly buy a 28 Nosler and fast twist 7 STW just to show anything the Nosler can do the STW has already been doing - the funny thing is there no telling which of those three I’d like better, but I’ll probably never own a 7 PRC unless it’s rechambered to 28 Nosler.

Basically I hate all the new fangled cartridges, but they are still fun to shoot.

 

[Kimber7man]

I love the 30-06 - take any new case of equally size and it’s no better than the original. I’m happy to be old school and like to think in terms of MOA and ftlbs, my main rifle is 60 years old, and the 30-06 barrel reminds me of a dude who shot a big polar bear.

20 years from now 1/3 of the new cartridges will stop being supported and the rifles will most go unshot, or rebarreled. The firearms industry has reached the point of better marketing and Hornady simply remakes existing cartridges, supplies brass, dies, ammo and extra heavy bullets and makes a ton of money. I’m sure behind closed doors they laugh about how easy it has been.

Nonetheless, new guns are fun - I have an old school 22-250, but the 22 creed barrel makes me grin - and it was easy. My 6.5-284 is a classic, but I also have a 6.5 PRC - honestly both are very close to the old 270, so really in 60 years since my 270 rolled off the shelf the 6.5’s aren’t much of an improvement. I still want an old school 264 win mag, which wipes the new 6.5’s and should have been more popular than it was. I poo poo the 6.5 creed, but ammo is cheap and it’s not hard to shoot.

.223’s suck balls, but I have one because they are so cheap and don’t heat up barrels too bad for a high volume varmint hunt. Heck, I’ll probably get another when it’s shot out - maybe Hornady will remake the .222 mag and all the fun kids will want that. The 204 Ruger is a better varmint round than the 223, and most 6mm’s are better for bigger things.

As a hand loader, there’s literally nothing a 6 creed should be better at. I might buy a barrel eventually just to say I have one and don’t like it. lol My ancient .243 Super Rockchucker (6mm-06) makes me smile - a regular old 25-06 is better in almost every way, but 6 creed will outsell 25-06 until I’m dead and gone.

The 7 PRC sounded great since it was tailor made for RL26, but take away that powder and it’s not so great. I’m an old school fan of the 7 rem mag, but I’d gladly buy a 28 Nosler and fast twist 7 STW just to show anything the Nosler can do the STW has already been doing - the funny thing is there no telling which of those three I’d like better, but I’ll probably never own a 7 PRC unless it’s rechambered to 28 Nosler.

Basically I hate all the new fangled cartridges, but they are still fun to shoot.

You could have skipped the STW and Nosler and gone straight to the Mashburn and not given up anything!

 

[TaperPin]

You could have skipped the STW and Nosler and gone straight to the Mashburn and not given up anything!

I need one.

 

[oldskool67]

303 British?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No sir

 

[whoami-72]

This question would definitely be answered differently (or thought about differently) depending on if you are stuck using factory ammo, or if you roll your own.

If you reload, they’re “all pretty much the same”. As long as you can find/make brass (by using other, maybe easier to get cartridges). Nothing is really that much of a bigger deal than anything else if you can get brass. Some burn more powder, and you get less loads per pound, but that’s about it. Lately, “THE” powder that makes a certain cartridge sing may be hard to find (like RL26), which is unfortunate, but not the end of the world. Buy an 8lber when it’s available.

There are only so many bullet diameters and finding quality projectiles is *very rarely* an issue. With some exceptions, nobody is coming out with new diameter projectiles. They’re all the same handful of diameters that they have been for the last 100 years.

There are a million different powders, but generally speaking, you can load for most magnums with just a couple of different powders. You can load a TON of the Intermediate cartridges with something like H4350. It doesn’t take a huge selection of powders to load *just about* everything rifle wise there is to load within reason. Are you going to be able to get them going “the fastest” without “the” powder for that cartridge? No, but if you have even a small selection, you probably have something pretty close.

An autotrickler and an $80 single stage from the pawn shop in your basement opens the door to shooting just about anything with no worries as long as you can get your hands on a couple-few hundred pieces of brass which is enough to shoot the barrel out of most rifles that aren’t a .223 or a .308

For sub $500 in startup you can shoot whatever you want, as much as you want (as long as you can afford powder, primers, and bullets) without worrying if “if I shoot up this last box, will I be able to find more?”

Some cartridges are just too risky if you only shoot factory and are not financially able to buy a couple cases when you can find it.

I can get on your side with this one. Unfortunately, in my case I don't enjoy reloading so I only do it when I can't find a factory load I like. But, once you get over the initial procurement of brass they could be pretty similar.

 

[whoami-72]

Still wondering why you (OP) bought another 30-06……

I think I explained the reason for picking .30-06 earlier so if you have any further questions you'll have to be specific. If you're asking why I have two rifles in the same caliber.......
My original .30-06 is a first gen savage axis (pre accutrigger) that I spent pretty much my entire life savings on as a teenager and had my dad pick up for me on a black Friday sale. So, this .30-06 is simply a much nicer usable gun in comparison to the axis. I won't get rid of the original because it was my very first gun but I also don't use it because it's not worth dumping $500 into it to make it huntable.

 

[Article 4]

One of the factors in what someone decides to run could be timing. Ill share at the end.

Many of the newer calibers are taking into account longer and higher BC bullets in their case design (neck and should design, freebore, case capacity, mag capacity etc...) which the WSMs and other calibers can run but lose powder capacity when they do, kinda defeating some of the purpose. When many of the WSMs came out in 2001 or so, it was right on the precipice of everyone going to turreted scopes - they weren't quite mainstream yet. It was about going faster to compensate for less holdover or drop calculations and the beginning of light LR Rifles that weren't super fast weatherby's and such. Light and fast was the marketing of the day. They were comparible to say 300WM, they were just lighter and had less recoil bullet to bullet.

Most modern calibers will kill most game up to "Normal" distances say 500 yards for discussion purposes very accurately - your 30-06, 308, 300WM etc, however they are limited due to case design when we think about ELR - yes I know 300 WM has gone way farther but we are talking about normal hunting conditions here so don't hammer me about 1000+ yards with your rifle caliber.

I loved my 6.5 CM which my godson now has as his first rifle, I loved my old 30-06 which went a long time ago, and I love my new wildcats - even love my newest build in 25CM which I feel like running the 135 in is nearly a perfect rifle. They all shoot long bullets at max case capacity - cause I built them to do just that. Something that is difficult to achieve for that purpose with say a 243 win.

Some folks don't have 6, 10, 15, 20 rifles etc...if you are a guy running a 30-06 or 308 and you are looking to get in the game, the newer calibers may be your first purchase in the new era, so why not get one that will run big, long, high BC bullets? Why not go with the PRCs or some of the other OTC calibers that you don't have to reload? If it was my first new rifle in many years, I would.

That to me is the marketing. To me that is the customer they are trying to attract, that is the timing they are trying to capture. Having multiple choices in the range is just prudent and smart business. For those of us with 20 rifles, "why" get one is a great question. With those folks out there with their old rifle, who want to upgrade past a 20-50 year old caliber to get in the game, love that they have so many choices!!!