Why are American branded trucks and most American branded vehicles so unreliable?

[Schaaf]

Well my company has been known to murder China men rather then pay them.

We're nothing more then an inconvenience to them.
Without my union I'm sure they would continue to work us to death for pennies

Railroad?

 

[Lando]

Regularly drive Dodge, GM, Ford for work. All of them have warranty issues before 100k. The Nissan and Toyota vehicles we have seemed to fair better.

As for personal experience. Every American full sized pickup I’ve owned has either had to have some “upgrade or delete kit” to make it “bulletproof”.

Dodge - death wobbled me into oncoming traffic.
Ford - computer issues every 5k miles.
GM - needs a lift to make it over a speed bump.

I have owned 4 Chrysler products in my life and someone would have to pay me to own another. 2 engines in one of them before 150,000 miles (with regular maintenance); but the absolute deal breaker was the Diesel with the death wobble--would only happen on the freeway/highway when you hit a bump just right and scared me and my family to death every time it happened. Never again. Toyota only for our family now.

 

[Lando]

Wife had a Nissan that the tranny went out at 109,000. It was a known issue with that tranny and Nissan basically told us that was acceptable mileage for a tranny.

Nissan went to shit when Renault (the French) bought in and it's been downhill ever since. The only decent thing Nissan does nowadays are their trucks, but Nissan isn't what it used to be. I wouldn't touch an Altima with ten-foot pole--transmissions are awful.

 

[Yoder]

Well my company has been known to murder China men rather then pay them.

We're nothing more then an inconvenience to them.
Without my union I'm sure they would continue to work us to death for pennies

I've always looked at unions as the cause of low quality and American made products being too expensive. You have an organization that rewards you based on time served, not competence. You end up with a useless moron making $50/hr putting on lug nuts and they can never be fired. Unions had a place, I think that time has passed. Now they are just corrupt. My industry has no unions and I am very well paid.

All of my experiences with union contractors have been similar. Work starts at 6:30. It takes an hr to get the plan and get your tools ready. Work from 7:30-8:30. Put tools away for 30 min. Go on break. Back from break 9:30. Get tools out. Work from 10:00 to 11:30. Put tools away for 30 min. Lunch. Back from lunch 12:30. Get tools out 30 min. Work from 1-2:30. Pack tools for 30 min and leave at 3. The other thing that is awesome is I need contractors from 3 different unions, all with a foreman if it involves different trades. I've seen situations where we had to have a mechanical guy to disconnect a pipe fitting and an electrical guy to disconnect a wire. Probably cost $1000 for 5 minutes of actual work. We do all of it. But I'm an untrained scab stealing American jobs, so I've been told. Over the years I've been threatened and also seen things broken and sabotaged. I have met some really good people too but my overall experience has been negative.

 

[Newtosavage]

Conversely, why are Japanese trucks and vehicles so reliable?

What is your reliability experience with both American and Japanese trucks?

Japanese vehicles tend to be simpler and better engineered than American vehicles.

That said, my Chevy Silverado has given me 230k trouble free miles since 2016 which is more than I put on any Toyota or Datsun I owned. Not that they wouldn't, but I can't complain about my Silverado.

I do agree there is a different kind of approach to Japanese manufacturing. Call it pride or just less fussy engineering or attention to detail or whatever. Look at Japanese optics for example. My 40 year old Nikon lenses still work as good as they day they were made, look better than most modern lenses and are a joy to use. Most MIJ binoculars and scopes are very reliable. It's just their culture to produce things that work well with good design and simplicity.

 

[Newtosavage]

Nissan went to shit when Renault (the French) bought in and it's been downhill ever since. The only decent thing Nissan does nowadays are their trucks, but Nissan isn't what it used to be. I wouldn't touch an Altima with ten-foot pole--transmissions are awful.

As someone who had a Datsun pickup for their first vehicle, I have to agree with you. My wife had a Nissan Altima (1st year) and it was overpriced and poor quality, and their quality has gone downhill ever since. But worst of all is their dealer network. If you want to see "pushy, aggressive sales" in action, stop in a Nissan dealership. I'll never go in another one.

 

[shangbango]

I don’t know the “why” of this.

What I do know is the amount of downtime for maintenance that I have on the fleet of Colorados that I manage is almost 200% higher than when we had Frontiers. And that is on a fleet of Colorados with significantly less mileage than what was on the Frontiers.

That is on a varying sample size of about 220 to 230 vehicles.

That’s all the proof that I need.

 

[GetWestern]

When it comes to truck brand discussions I think people might as well be arguing why their favorite color is the best, by the way green is the superior color.

 

[5MilesBack]

Well my company has been known to murder China men rather then pay them.
We're nothing more then an inconvenience to them.
Without my union I'm sure they would continue to work us to death for pennies

That's why we have choices here in America, and what used to be a free market. If one company doesn't fit your needs/wants you choose a different company to work for.

Unfortunately, the government and unions have completely turned our nation from a free market to a manipulated market. That has long lasting profound negative effects on our economy and our society, and we see those negative effects compounding every day as we turn further away from freedom and a free market.

But as for vehicles......those Toyota's/Lexus that are still made in Japan are still some of the most reliable vehicles on the road. The ones made here and Mexico have slipped a bit from what Toyota used to be, but are still more reliable on average. I've also known many guys that have never had an issue with their American trucks. I have a 22 year old F-350 that has been incredibly reliable. My 34 year old Toyota has the 3.0L that supposedly has had head gasket issues. I haven't had that problem yet. Any given vehicle can run 300k miles trouble free, and any given vehicle might crap out at 50k miles. But overall, it's pretty easy to study up on reliability of specific vehicles compared to the rest.

 

[Sapcut]

It’s like trying to discuss the best arrow weights that actually penetrate the best. It is impossible to have a legitimate and unbiased conversation to actually learn something. The personal preferences of the light arrow shooters just cannot take a back seat to actually see the facts. Just impossible.

 

[BRTreedogs]

That's why we have choices here in America, and what used to be a free market. If one company doesn't fit your needs/wants you choose a different company to work for.

Unfortunately, the government and unions have completely turned our nation from a free market to a manipulated market. That has long lasting profound negative effects on our economy and our society, and we see those negative effects compounding every day as we turn further away from freedom and a free market.

But as for vehicles......those Toyota's/Lexus that are still made in Japan are still some of the most reliable vehicles on the road. The ones made here and Mexico have slipped a bit from what Toyota used to be, but are still more reliable on average. I've also known many guys that have never had an issue with their American trucks. I have a 22 year old F-350 that has been incredibly reliable. My 34 year old Toyota has the 3.0L that supposedly has had head gasket issues. I haven't had that problem yet. Any given vehicle can run 300k miles trouble free, and any given vehicle might crap out at 50k miles. But overall, it's pretty easy to study up on reliability of specific vehicles compared to the rest.

I guess if you're a quitter.

 

[Brian Fahs]

Vehicles and jobs are a personal choice.

My family owns and drives toyota. Decades of ownership and zero disappointments.

As for unions, I'm a 30 year plus IBEW member set to retire next year at age 60. There have been some disappointments over the years but I have provided well for my family and have exceeded my expectations in life. To each their own.

 

[Titan_Bow]

As someone who had a Datsun pickup for their first vehicle, I have to agree with you. My wife had a Nissan Altima (1st year) and it was overpriced and poor quality, and their quality has gone downhill ever since. But worst of all is their dealer network. If you want to see "pushy, aggressive sales" in action, stop in a Nissan dealership. I'll never go in another one.

Man, that's exactly what deterred me from buying another Nissan. I put half a million miles on 2 Nissans (a Titan and then an Xterra), and was ready to buy a new Titan a couple years ago. The dealer here was terrible to work with. Very rude and aggressive, but wouldn't even begin to entertain reasonable offers (this was before the COVID shortages). I walked out of there, went down the road to the Toyota dealer and got exactly what I wanted at the price I wanted to pay. It was actually one of the best vehicle buying experiences I've had.
I'd have a hard time being swayed from a Nissan or Toyota, I've just got too many trouble-free miles on them. Every domestic brand vehicle I've owned has been nothing but headache. My first "nice" vehicle I ever bought was Ford Bronco 2 Eddie Bauer edition. I was so proud of that thing. At the time, it was a really really nice vehicle. Ended up getting rid of it in short order, NOTHING but electrical problems. Bought a really nice 95 Dodge Ram when I was in the Army, again, I was really proud of that truck. It was the worst vehicle I have EVER owned, and to this day, if someone gave me a brand new Dodge of any kind, I would kindly decline the offer. That Ram went through multiple water pumps, and threw a fan blade threw the hood. Before it had even close to 100k miles, I couldn't drive it from Fort Benning to Charlotte, NC to see my girlfriend, because I was worried it would make it. It leaked/burned oil, overheated, had electrical issues... At just over 100K miles, I ended up giving it away and had to haggle with a dude that was wanting ME to PAY HIM to take it..... I hated that truck with a passion and cant stand to even look at Dodge trucks today LOL

 

[WV Mountaineer]

This thread is based upon a stereotype that originated in the 1970s and 1980s when US auto manufacturers were designing and building crap.
Japanese design was edgy and the build quality was better. I owned a Pennsylvania-built Rabbit GTi and Honda/Acuras until my 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee.
I did all of my own maintenance on that rig and it was dead reliable until I sold it to my bil and he drove it another 50k. It was traded in during Cash for Clunkers and still running great.
I have had three VW Passats since 2000...Two made on the Audi line in Ingolstadt and one made in US. Again, I did most of my own maintenance and repair and they didn't need much. The German versions were very well-built and designed. The US was okay, and it was the TDi that has been an amazing engine and tranny.
My current 2015 F150 has been excellent. Ford really spends time designing intelligent features into that car.
It is miles ahead of the design and OE spec of the 2006 Tacoma I owned for 8 years. That thing was weak in so many areas of basic design and engineering, no to mention the pathetic OE parts that were used.

The Toyota quality myth that started 40 years ago has vanished for those in the know but some people keep their head in the sand or just don't have the attention to detail to understand what goes into excellent design.

It’s a Toyota. It’ll climb mountains better, pull more weight, handle curves, has a lot of power, and do everything else better. Because it’s a Toyota.

If you don’t believe me there’s a bunch of 30 year olds on here that’s owned three vehicles their whole life that will confirm it.

 

[DangerRanger]

I have not found that to be true, I’m sure there is some there but IME my f150s have been very good trucks.

Sample of one but my Honda civic absolutely detonated at 106k miles cruising down the freeway.

 

[neverquit]

I alway get a chuckle when I see the stars and strips flying on a Japanese truck.

 

[Jbrow327]

I alway get a chuckle when I see the stars and strips flying on a Japanese truck.

I always assume they do this because they know that their truck is made with more American made parts than any other truck.

 

[Iceman82]

I've owned both foreign and domestic, own an HVAC business and have service vehicles. I would own nothing but American vehicles. And I'm including the Tundras made in America with the profits going back home.

 

[2five7]

Toyota has averaged about 109k Tundras sold per year for the last 10 years. Ford has averaged 798k F150's per years for the last 10 years.

My point is this, if they had the EXACT same reliability rate, you're roughly 8x more likely to hear about a problem or failure on the Ford, than you are on the Toyota.

 

[Tod osier]

If you don’t believe me there’s a bunch of 30 year olds on here that’s owned three vehicles their whole life that will confirm it.

You can get pretty far along in life owning 3 vehicles - if they are Toyotas.

In my adult life for trucks I went from T-100, to Tacoma, to Tundra and that got me to nearly 50 years old. I own a F250 now, but that is only because Toyota doesn't make a 3/4 ton.