When to add a second dog?

[*zap*]

Raising and maintaining working dogs is a lot of work and can be challenging. At the moment I am happy with one just turning two years old..

 

[Jason Snyder]

 

[Wellsdw]

Any opinion on whether a Pudelpointer would be a good candidate to train for tracking wounded deer while ignoring the healthy ones?
I expect the 2nd part to be by far the hardest.

I track deer primarily with my dog from a working stand poin.I don’t bird hunt. Honestly there is a misconception when it comes to training tracking dogs (technically trailing). you can use blood, hide interdigital gland or what ever. Basically the dog learns to trail what you tell it too.. Ive laid mock tracks using kids, other dogs, even boots covered in “scent away” (to prove a point to a buddy). We as humans have no idea what the dog is actually trailing when it is tracking. Likely pheromones, dander, interdigital scent salvia, blood, intestinal enzymes etc….. or a combination of all. Which basically means the dog naturally tracks the one it starts the trail on. This is because no 2 deer smell alike to a dog, much like a humans. That said One issue I have run into is power line right of ways. These areas become trailing issues at least for my dog. I’d suggest reading a couple books on blood tracking training as well basic k9 tracking. It’s really more handler training than dog.
I’d also recommend “leashed tracking” over gps tracking. My .02

 

[TSAMP]

When I was debating about male or female for my last draht puppy, I got this advice…

Get a wiffle ball bat and use it VERY liberally anytime there is attitude. The guy that told me this owned two stud dogs and is a longtime VDD judge.

It’s been my experience males coexist fine in the field but really get to be a pain around camp, feeding time, the pickup, etc.

Manage them firmly and leave no question about who is alpha.

You know it's funny I never considered it to be anything more than play, slightly annoying play that didnt bother me until theyre loud. but logically it makes perfect sense that the little dog is perfecting his plan for the take over. I just figured he hadn't evolved his off switch yet.

When it gets out of hand pup goes to the kennel, I think ill police it a little differently moving forward. Thanks fellas.

 

[Jason Snyder]

You know it's funny I never considered it to be anything more than play, slightly annoying play that didnt bother me until theyre loud. but logically it makes perfect sense that the little dog is perfecting his plan for the take over. I just figured he hadn't evolved his off switch yet.

When it gets out of hand pup goes to the kennel, I think ill police it a little differently moving forward. Thanks fellas.

I’d give it a bit, keep putting him in his kennel for now. Your older dog will keep pup in his place for a while. After about 10-12 months of age I’d keep a pretty tight rein on things.

 

[TSAMP]

4 month old pups already 40 lbs. Thinks he's a contender.

 

[johnnycake]

4 month old pups already 40 lbs. Thinks he's a contender.

That pup is 40lbs? How big is the older one?!

 

[*zap*]

 

[TSAMP]

That pup is 40lbs? How big is the older one?!

75 lbs. Pup was mid 30s in that pic.

 

[johnnycake]

75 lbs. Pup was mid 30s in that pic.

My 1yr old is at 45lbs and will probably fill out to 50. My 7yr old is 42-45lbs and I love that size. It seems like more and more pudelpointers are in the plus sized range, with females over 60 and males in the 70s.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Big dogs. My male draht is 65 lbs and my female is a 40 lb pixie. I haven’t been around a lot of PP but don’t think I’ve seen one over 50-55 lbs.

 

[TSAMP]

My 1yr old is at 45lbs and will probably fill out to 50. My 7yr old is 42-45lbs and I love that size. It seems like more and more pudelpointers are in the plus sized range, with females over 60 and males in the 70s.

It is certainly a trend. The big one is nearly 7 and is very leggy and athletic. He hunts around 68 lbs usually. The pups parents are both over 65 lbs and more of a lab build. blockish rectangle of a frame. I wasn't specifically after a big dog and would fine If he turns out smaller but right now he's trending about 8 weeks ahead of my others weight schedule.

Edit: I just noticed you called my dog plus sized lol ouch

 

[Clovis]

I track deer primarily with my dog from a working stand poin.I don’t bird hunt. Honestly there is a misconception when it comes to training tracking dogs (technically trailing). you can use blood, hide interdigital gland or what ever. Basically the dog learns to trail what you tell it too.. Ive laid mock tracks using kids, other dogs, even boots covered in “scent away” (to prove a point to a buddy). We as humans have no idea what the dog is actually trailing when it is tracking. Likely pheromones, dander, interdigital scent salvia, blood, intestinal enzymes etc….. or a combination of all. Which basically means the dog naturally tracks the one it starts the trail on. This is because no 2 deer smell alike to a dog, much like a humans. That said One issue I have run into is power line right of ways. These areas become trailing issues at least for my dog. I’d suggest reading a couple books on blood tracking training as well basic k9 tracking. It’s really more handler training than dog.
I’d also recommend “leashed tracking” over gps tracking. My .02

I have experience with German versatile dogs used for both bird hunting and blood tracking with no major issues with running deer. It does add a degree of complication in that you can't just condition them to keep their attention off deer, period, but they figure it out with the right opportunities, rewards and corrections.

 

[johnnycake]

Edit: I just noticed you called my dog plus sized lol ouch

Ha, plus sized as in over the 40-60lbs 'standard' as it is loosely acknowledged by the various PP groups. I've seen 2 males over 90lbs and solid muscle at that. The one, we babysat for a week when he was just over a year old, still growing, and in the mid 80s. Fella is over 30" tall at the shoulder. Super sweet dog, but damn you could put a saddle on him and ride up the mountain. He absolutely dwarfed my Ava.

 

[TSAMP]

Ha, plus sized as in over the 40-60lbs 'standard' as it is loosely acknowledged by the various PP groups. I've seen 2 males over 90lbs and solid muscle at that. The one, we babysat for a week when he was just over a year old, still growing, and in the mid 80s. Fella is over 30" tall at the shoulder. Super sweet dog, but damn you could put a saddle on him and ride up the mountain. He absolutely dwarfed my Ava.

View attachment 701954

That thing is part wooly mammoth.

 

[johnnycake]

That thing is part wooly mammoth.

Cooper is a beast, for sure. He's even more imposing now that he's mature and fully muscled. Add in his coat, and yeah, I'd believe it if dna testing revealed an ice age great grandparent snuck onto his pedigree

 

[TSAMP]

Figured I'd update this thread. I'm right over 6 months with the Pup and hes around 55lbs. Within the last week the older dog has begun trying to hump the pup quite extensively. Pups wrestling him off well I've stayed out of it for the most part as it's all been out in the yard.

The male on male dynamic hasn't been fairly uneventful so far. The younger dog has bullied the older one without much issue around food/toys. The only time I've seen things go western so far is over dead critters. Teeth come out but no biting has happened. Just snapping. I take it from the both of them. The little dog isn't backing down though.

 

[Green tide]

Good looking dogs! This is the first year in a long time I'm going into a season without a bird dog. Now that my kids are getting bigger and not in diapers I can promise that I'll be on the new pup every 5 year plan.

 

[TSAMP]

Bumping this thread. I'd like to discuss working two dogs in the field specifically the Do's and Dont's. I have planned to hunt seperate this first season. Especially because ive gone through some joint issues on my older dog and he could use the rest.

Id like to be better prepared for the inevitable "i only have an hour today im gonna run them both to wear them out" scanerio.

I have found my pup works much more productively by himself. He simply follows the big one when they're together off leash and trys to play.

Our Hunt areas recently opened back up to dog traffic so I'll soon be taking them out on wild birds once I'm comfortable that the hatch have become decent flyers.

I train separately, but in a handful of scenarios I've allowed them to hunt a planted bird together and both have backed the other. So they seem to have some potential to be cooperative.

 

[displacedtexan]

If they both back reliability, I'd have no hesitation running them together. In many circumstances I even prefer it.

I greatly dislike running a dog that blows backs with a broke dog.