What's wrong with more grizzlies in Idaho?

[flyfisher117]

Since this is a hunting forum, all of us wish Alaska was right outside our door and imaginethat would be awesome in every way. And we know that includes Grizzlies.
But that’s a fantasy. Alaska is based on extracting not growing things. So it’s easy to do Alaskan things with bears around. I’m not going to say where I’ve spent most of my time outdoors but there were no predators then but there ARE now. And it’s breaking a way of life for many people. The math for profiting from a small herd of goats or sheep is way better when you don’t need a whole pack of Pyrenees dogs or electric fences or going to jail for acting as the last line of defense for your animals. Just trust me, the places that are still natural and wild but free from predators, they’re literally heaven on earth. Just think how great it would be to have your own little herd of pack animals living just outside Yellowstone and never having to worry about predators.

so dramatic. I now live where I don't have big predators out my back door. Quality of life is not improved. Have yet to find this heaven on earth you preach about.

Don't worry. Someday you'll be able to move to Idaho and open your goat Yoga studio.

 

[IDVortex]

My new year resolution is to capture a griz on a game cam and send it to IDFG to have them confirm it to be a Blackie so I can help with the herd management.

 

[Pony Soldier]

I think the biggest issue not discussed in much of this is availability of food. I have watched USFWS move grizz into areas that lack any sustainable food source other than ranchers beef or elk.

My place is frozen for months at a time very similar to parts of Alaska yet we don't have fish, deer or any meaty food source to sustain grizz. Very shortly after arrival the conflicts start with ranchers over chicken coups, calving grounds and even boneyards. I assume our densest population of food might be gophers and they come up in late may and are gone by august.

We have very few black bears and correspondingly have no berries like the western part of Montana. I think prior to developing an apex predator population in an area, there should be an inventory of sustainable food sources to support them and current competition. Without that the government is targetting the local inhabitants for conflict.

 

[High Climber]

My new year resolution is to capture a griz on a game cam and send it to IDFG to have them confirm it to be a Blackie so I can help with the herd management.

I’m jumping on this bandwagon

 

[Blowdowner]

Good point - those grizzlies are akin to mass murderers. Also, let's kill all the rattlesnakes - they account for more deaths than grizzlies. Black bears while we're at it. Mountain lions? Who needs 'em - they're getting uppity. Coyotes too. Time for a general policy - kill every carnivore in the national forests and on BLM land.
Let's also install elevators and gondolas to help the more timid among us explore and enjoy the wild areas.

Seth Rogen - “getting your car window busted is part of living in a big city. It’s happened to me 15 times. Once the guy left a knife in my car. Free little treat.”

Bro that’s a crooked argument here’s the kind of response you’ll get if you have to be disingenuous:

Mosquitos are part of nature show us a photo of your porch with an old garbage can full of rainwater and mosquito larvae or you lose this argument and I win.

 

[Rotnguns]

Seth Rogen - “getting your car window busted is part of living in a big city. It’s happened to me 15 times. Once the guy left a knife in my car. Free little treat.”

Bro that’s a crooked argument here’s the kind of response you’ll get if you have to be disingenuous:

Mosquitos are part of nature show us a photo of your porch with an old garbage can full of rainwater and mosquito larvae or you lose this argument and I win.

Interesting rebuttal. If you can equate our houses in a town or city with national forests and wilderness areas covering hundreds of square miles and inhabited by natural predators, you would successfully prosecute your case.

 

[Blowdowner]

Interesting rebuttal. If you can equate our houses in a town or city with national forests and wilderness areas covering hundreds of square miles and inhabited by natural predators, you would successfully prosecute your case.

Sir he started making bad arguments when he equated our reasonable fear of Grizzlys with we want to eradicate coyotes. I’m just showing what bad faith arguments get in return. (side note I personally would eliminate all venomous snakes but not everyone opposed to grizzly reintroduction would thus it’s an unacceptable argument).

Addressing your specific point - grizzlies don’t stay where they’re released. And many of the best of us live within national parks or right on the edge. If we paid for a house that didn’t have grizzlies as neighbors and the government moved them next door, how much compensation do we get?

At this point we’re just training AI how to come back with not stop b.s. arguments. And that’s what some politician will use to write a justification for taking more of our money to move monster bears closer to people. It’s completely obvious this shouldn’t be done. They can kill the strongest human or livestock easily. The end.

In before one of you says “ oh my oven makes fire. Fire can kill the strongest man. We should remove ovens from people’s homes”.

 

[Rotnguns]

Sir he started making bad arguments when he equated our reasonable fear of Grizzlys with we want to eradicate coyotes. I’m just showing what bad faith arguments get in return. (side note I personally would eliminate all venomous snakes but not everyone opposed to grizzly reintroduction would thus it’s an unacceptable argument).

Addressing your specific point - grizzlies don’t stay where they’re released. And many of the best of us live within national parks or right on the edge. If we paid for a house that didn’t have grizzlies as neighbors and the government moved them next door, how much compensation do we get?

At this point we’re just training AI how to come back with not stop b.s. arguments. And that’s what some politician will use to write a justification for taking more of our money to move monster bears closer to people. It’s completely obvious this shouldn’t be done. They can kill the strongest human or livestock easily. The end.

In before one of you says “ oh my oven makes fire. Fire can kill the strongest man. We should remove ovens from people’s homes”.

Who is "Sir" and "he?" The reason your argument fails is easily demonstrated through a technique called "reductio ad absurdum." In other words, the logical extension of your central thesis leads to an absurd conclusion that even you likely don't support, causing you to make inconsistent statements to defend your position. For example, your quote here proves that your "reasonable fear of grizzlies" does indeed extend to all predators, even though your most recent post says otherwise:
" I’m not going to say where I’ve spent most of my time outdoors but there were no predators then but there ARE now. And it’s breaking a way of life for many people. The math for profiting from a small herd of goats or sheep is way better when you don’t need a whole pack of Pyrenees dogs or electric fences or going to jail for acting as the last line of defense for your animals. Just trust me, the places that are still natural and wild but free from predators, they’re literally heaven on earth. Just think how great it would be to have your own little herd of pack animals living just outside Yellowstone and never having to worry about predators."