What's the compromise caliber?

[MuleyFever]

I searched a few key words but didn't come up with anything so excuse me if this has been covered. Please post a link to the thread.

With the debate on small vs large cartridges, what is the optimal middle of the road cartridge for a factory ammo shooter? If you don't want to shoot a 6CM or a 7 PRC where should you look? Is the 270 the optimal? 280AI? 308? 6.5CM? Is the SAAMI approval of the 25CM the silver bullet?

 

[crich]

Short answer IMO....... yes.

They're all the best or the worst if the bullet selection is right or wrong and the impact velocity is above minimums or too low.

I'd evaluate your needs and application and then search for your goldilocks cartridge. Someone else's might be different.

That said a 6.5 CM/.270win ish cartridge seem like good half ton truck options. Pick your poison between Chevy Ford and RAM then drive it till the wheels fall off.... or until a new generation comes out.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

The real question is, why would you not want to shoot a 6 CM? The wound channel on my moose from one at over 500 yards certainly showed that I wasn’t even close to the maximum effective range with that cartridge. Seems like it is as close to a silver bullet as you might find.

 

[Marbles]

What makes you happy?

Seriously, I don't think there is an optional middle ground, just different choices.

Some would say a 6 CM or 243 is the middle with a 22-250 or 22 CM being small. Some will say the 6.5 CM is small and a 7mm is the perfect middle. And others will say a 30 cal is middle and 338 is the start of big.

Personally, I kind of want a 25 CM, just because it is not a 6.5, but also not a 6 mm. No truly good reason, but higher BC bullets works as an excuse, that and it is new, so @B_Reynolds_AK doesn't have one yet.

 

[MuleyFever]

The real question is, why would you not want to shoot a 6 CM? The wound channel on my moose from one at over 500 yards certainly showed that I wasn’t even close to the maximum effective range with that cartridge. Seems like it is as close to a silver bullet as you might find.

We all have comfort levels. One may be capable of killing a deer at 1000 yards based on practice but may decide that they have a 600 yard limit. Same principle.

 

[Fujicon]

Given what I got my middle-of-the-road caliber would be .308. But when it comes to what I actually hunt with, the middle is more like 6.5. I'd recommend the 6.5 PRC over the 6.5 CM eight days a week and twice on Sunday. But recognize that questions like the OP's are "flavor questions," akin to asking someone which flavor of ice cream should be standard. To each their own...

 

[crich]

We all have comfort levels. One may be capable of killing a deer at 1000 yards based on practice but may decide that they have a 600 yard limit. Same principle.

I think he's just pointing out that even at 500 yards the 6cm made soup out of moose lungs. Hard to tell from your op if you we're implying that 6cm might be too small?

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

We all have comfort levels. One may be capable of killing a deer at 1000 yards based on practice but may decide that they have a 600 yard limit. Same principle.

Just curious, and for discussion, have you ventured outside of your comfort zone within cartridges and projectiles? I guess venturing outside of it at extended ranges means lots of practice, but the terminal results that are abundant on here can act as a source of information to move outside of that zone with confidence that it’s worked for others.

For myself, that’s the 223. It’s definitely outside of what I “feel” comfortable with.. but atleast I can go there with data behind it that it does indeed work very well.

 

[Koda_]

I searched a few key words but didn't come up with anything so excuse me if this has been covered. Please post a link to the thread.

With the debate on small vs large cartridges, what is the optimal middle of the road cartridge for a factory ammo shooter? If you don't want to shoot a 6CM or a 7 PRC where should you look? Is the 270 the optimal? 280AI? 308? 6.5CM? Is the SAAMI approval of the 25CM the silver bullet?

Probably the most famous factory cartridge for being the optimal "middle of the road" has been described in hunting lore as "from mouse to moose", is the 25-06.

 

[MuleyFever]

Just curious, and for discussion, have you ventured outside of your comfort zone within cartridges and projectiles? I guess venturing outside of it at extended ranges means lots of practice, but the terminal results that are abundant on here can act as a source of information to move outside of that zone with confidence that it’s worked for others.

My wife and I have been hunting with the 6CM for the last few seasons. Prior to that my wife shot a 7mm-08 and I was reloading for a 280ai and 7 SAUM. I went to the 6CM for reduced recoil for the wife and I immediately noticed the benefits myself. I have lost a deer with the 6CM due to a bad shot. I'm am still not convinced its the optimal choice. I admit though that this is personal so please don't go down that road.

 

[MuleyFever]

I think he's just pointing out that even at 500 yards the 6cm made soup out of moose lungs. Hard to tell from your op if you we're implying that 6cm might be too small?

No, this is not a 223 or 6mm is too small debate. I know that they work and am using a 6mm now. This is about a balance between what will work at the minimal legal vs what one may be comfortable with.

I have heard it expressed that you need to be confident and comfortable in your set up. We do better when we are confident in our setup. So if I know I don't need a magnum but don't feel comfortable at the 6cm level where do I look as a factory ammo shooter. Is there really a difference in the 6.5CM to 308 calibers? Is the 25CM worth waiting for?

 

[LightFoot]

7mm-08 for Antelope to Elk.
Alternatively, 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor.

If you are willing to go magnum… 6.5 PRC.


>>>——JAKE——>

 

[Marbles]

No, this is not a 223 or 6mm is too small debate. I know that they work and am using a 6mm now. This is about a balance between what will work at the minimal legal vs what one may be comfortable with.

I have heard it expressed that you need to be confident and comfortable in your set up. We do better when we are confident in our setup. So if I know I don't need a magnum but don't feel comfortable at the 6cm level where do I look as a factory ammo shooter. Is there really a difference in the 6.5CM to 308 calibers? Is the 25CM worth waiting for?

25 CM, 6.5 CM, or 7mm-08. 308 will work, but not with heavy for caliber option (though 7mm-08 doesn't really do heavy 7mm either). The easy answer at the moment is 6.5 CM.

 

[Koda_]

Is there really a difference in the 6.5CM to 308 calibers? Is the 25CM worth waiting for?

No and no.
Pick any of the popular calibers and it will do it all.

 

[wyosam]

I’d say something in a 308 or Creedmoor sized cases (or the 284 win case…or either of the x57s, SAUMs are probably fine, too) with a bullet between .243 and .338. That leaves a nice space for 223 case and .224 bullet to be the low, and long action and/or .35 to be the large. Anything in between is a great middle ground. Go kill sh*t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hereinaz]

This is based on preference for the minimum and maximum. You’ll be higher if your belief requires big and lower if you shoot a .223.

While I fall on the smaller caliber side, I settled on the 25 cal as “optimal” based on how I saw my 7 cal overperform terminally out to 1000, and how much recoil made it harder to shoot effectively in field positions at long range. Given my situation, I factor in long range performance, which isn’t necessary for the vast majority of situations.

For me, I want to see the 25 cal options increase because you have the newer 133-135 grain high BC bullet. The 6.5 is already there and close with the 140-150 grain bullets.

Next up is .274 cal, and it’s interesting how Really only the .270 win existed with no short action .270. It is a long action shooting lighter for caliber weights in the class with the 6:5. Typically has more recoil.

Then there is the .284 so the 140-168 in 7mm-08. On the low side it’s the same weight as the creed.

Those show is a lot of cross over with the heavy for caliber bullets now with 6.5 creed and 7-08 and even 308 that can be loaded with bullets below 140.

The mention of the 25-06 as the “mouse to moose” above struck me, because it is shooting bullets in/near the weight class of the heavy for caliber 6mm, at just a little more velocity.

 

[MHWASH]

I went to the 6CM for reduced recoil for the wife and I immediately noticed the benefits myself. I have lost a deer with the 6CM due to a bad shot. I'm am still not convinced its the optimal choice. I admit though that this is personal so please don't go down that road.

This is exactly where I'm at. I'm going to try the .243 again this year, but I've never been confident in it. I have the utmost confidence in the 260 & 6.5 CM.

 

[justinspicher]

I really believe that the compromise is in how confident the shooter is with their setup.

The thought process is the larger the bullet, the larger my margin for error is.

The truth is, cartridge selection is important, but actually training with said setup is critical.

Having a $2500 set up is pointless if you have $25 worth of skill with it.

 

[eric1115]

This is exactly where I'm at. I'm going to try the .243 again this year, but I've never been confident in it. I have the utmost confidence in the 260 & 6.5 CM.

Something that needs to be remembered with these conversations is that the smaller you go, the more bullet selection matters. You can stuff any old bullet in a .30-06 case and get pretty good terminal performance.

If you do the same with a .223 or .242, you might be disappointed. I've never loved the hard bonded bullets or monometals in mid caliber (6.5-.30) but I've seen them do decent work especially out of faster cartridges like a .270. I've been underwhelmed by bullets like Accubond, TSX, etc in smaller diameters but very impressed by heavy for caliber ELDM and TMK .22 and 6mm options.

Bullet selection matters a lot, and the smaller the diameter the more it matters.

 

[bullmtn]

I really believe that the compromise is in how confident the shooter is with their setup.

The thought process is the larger the bullet, the larger my margin for error is.

The truth is, cartridge selection is important, but actually training with said setup is critical.

Having a $2500 set up is pointless if you have $25 worth of skill with it.

I feel attacked.