What is Federal paying to shill for 7 backcountry?

[tony]

Im a mechanic so I think in ugga-duggas. What's the conversion from wallop to ugga-dugga?

You have to square that with authority
Then divide by knock down power to get your answer.

 

[alexnelon]

Of all the people posting on this thread, how many have actual shot a rifle in 7mm Backcountry? I wanted real world data so I bought a rifle and ammo.

I haven’t seen anyone wondering about how a 7mm at 80,000 psi is going to shoot. I think we can all imagine pretty close.

 

[cal30_sniper]

I haven’t seen anyone wondering about how a 7mm at 80,000 psi is going to shoot. I think we can all imagine pretty close.

Seems like some posting in this thread are having a hard time imagining the clear ballistic advantages of doing that.

 

[Kerbs]

I'm also amazed at the hate for the cartridge. It seems like a lot of conjecture in most cases. I absolutely love that Federal is pushing the boundaries. I LOATHE LONG BARRELS. Especially 24-26" magnums. I have been shooting with suppressors for more than 20 years and it sucks to hunt in the west with a long rifle and then another 7"s hanging off the end. Those of us who want to hunt with a 16-18" barrel and not take a huge velocity penalty, it's an amazing round. I'm having a 7BC barrel made right now in a 16.5" for exactly this reason. I believe the future of western rifles will be sub 20" barrels that favor suppressors.

I love old many old established cartridges and enjoy hunting/shooting them. But hot damn is it exciting to see real innovation in cartridges. I hope it makes it, but the only way it will is if people support it. Kinda funny that way.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I don't understand all the pushback that 7BC has gotten in this community.

Because the half truths involved in the rollout hype, this is a community that does a lot of load tinkering so it stands out that can't be done at this time, something the hype downplays / at times misleads about. If the case technology truly allows reloading on a traditional hand press it would grow.

I have a 284win and 280AI, I have no fundamental issue with a 80ksi case like that as long as its safe and reloadable. That doesn't mean I won't jest about the "coming soon" aspects of the reloading rollout.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Because the half truths involved in the rollout hype, this is a community that does a lot of load tinkering so it stands out that can't be done at this time, something the hype downplays / at times misleads about. If the case technology truly allows reloading on a traditional hand press it would grow.

I have a 284win and 280AI, I have no fundamental issue with a 80ksi case like that as long as its safe and reloadable. That doesn't mean I won't jest about the "coming soon" aspects of the reloading rollout.

I think there’s a whole lot more negativity being spread around this than “well it’s great except we can’t reload it yet.”

The majority of the American shooting public doesn’t handload, and the percentage that does is likely dropping with the advent of FAR better factory ammo and coming advancements like the 277 Fury and 7BC indicate are around the corner. For the majority of use cases it makes less and less sense, especially in the glut of current ammo availability.

There’s also a lot of conjecture that it can’t be handloaded, but I’m not seeing any evidence of it being tinkered with to find out. You’d think with dies on the market and rifle/ammo/bullet availability being what it is, one of the presumed tinkerers would already be trying it. I’d wager that’s not the case because it doesn’t really make sense to invest the effort with current ammo availability and an already very high performing cartridge in factory trim.

 

[cal30_sniper]

I think there’s a whole lot more negativity being spread around this than “well it’s great except we can’t reload it yet.”

The majority of the American shooting public doesn’t handload, and the percentage that does is likely dropping with the advent of FAR better factory ammo and coming advancements like the 277 Fury and 7BC indicate are around the corner. For the majority of use cases it makes less and less sense, especially in the glut of current ammo availability.

There’s also a lot of conjecture that it can’t be handloaded, but I’m not seeing any evidence of it being tinkered with to find out. You’d think with dies on the market and rifle/ammo/bullet availability being what it is, one of the presumed tinkerers would already be trying it. I’d wager that’s not the case because it doesn’t really make sense to invest the effort with current ammo availability and an already very high performing cartridge in factory trim.

To put this more succinctly, I view the reloading conundrum as a red herring being utilized by a community that is historically very resistant to technological advancement.

[edit to add: by “a community” I mean the shooting/hunting community at large, not specifically the Rokslide community. I generally find the Rokslide community to be pretty progressive and open minded on tech, which is precisely why I’m having trouble understanding all the pushback against 7BC]

I’m sure the same naysaying could have been observed in the local bar around the time of the advent of smokeless powder small bore cartridges 130 years ago.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I think there’s a whole lot more negativity being spread around this than “well it’s great except we can’t reload it yet.”

I haven't followed it all, that is just a major item that the hype machine keeps trying to downplay.

The majority of the American shooting public doesn’t handload,

You asked about the pushback in THIS community.

There’s also a lot of conjecture that it can’t be handloaded, but I’m not seeing any evidence of it being tinkered with to find out. You’d think with dies on the market and rifle/ammo/bullet availability being what it is, one of the presumed tinkerers would already be trying it. I’d wager that’s not the case because it doesn’t really make sense to invest the effort with current ammo availability and an already very high performing cartridge in factory trim.

Well... the dies weren't around for most of this time. Certain die makers couldn't get something they were happy with. Lee has a warning on their page for their die. A lot of flags pointing to the fact this might not actually be easily reloadable... I don't blame someone for not running out and spending their money on a barrel/rifle with all those red flags currently. I look forward to someone trying and ideally it is reloadable but will remain skeptical based on how things have played out to date. Happy to amend my impression with actual proof and not salesman statements, which is really all that has been available most of this time.

To put this more succinctly, I view the reloading conundrum as a red herring being utilized by a community that is historically very resistant to technological advancement.

Its not a red herring, many folks don't like certain load combos and want to use the bullets they want to use (not the few federal loads for) and you're screwed if the factory ammo doesn't shoot well in your barrel/rifle. You mean the community that embraces bullet advancements, finds it cool when folks create various wild cats, embraced a fugly stock, etc.? That community that you claim is resistant? Yeah sorry not buying it.



The rollout had a big obvious shill component and downplayed the issues/short comings of the current situation, that is something that will turn some folks off.

 

[ReaptheHeat]

To put this more succinctly, I view the reloading conundrum as a red herring being utilized by a community that is historically very resistant to technological advancement.

I’m sure the same naysaying could have been observed in the local bar around the time of the advent of smokeless powder small bore cartridges 130 years ago.

Don't tell the public it's reloadable, put out a video on reloading and how easy it is, and then months later, still crickets. The guys chasing high velocity in short suppressed rifles are usually reloaders. The overlap here is extremely high.

The cartridge is cool, but I'm struggling to see the benefit for the layman buying it.

 

[RyanT26]

I think there’s a whole lot more negativity being spread around this than “well it’s great except we can’t reload it yet.”

The majority of the American shooting public doesn’t handload, and the percentage that does is likely dropping with the advent of FAR better factory ammo and coming advancements like the 277 Fury and 7BC indicate are around the corner. For the majority of use cases it makes less and less sense, especially in the glut of current ammo availability.

There’s also a lot of conjecture that it can’t be handloaded, but I’m not seeing any evidence of it being tinkered with to find out. You’d think with dies on the market and rifle/ammo/bullet availability being what it is, one of the presumed tinkerers would already be trying it. I’d wager that’s not the case because it doesn’t really make sense to invest the effort with current ammo availability and an already very high performing cartridge in factory trim.

The .277 has been around since 2019. It’s a dead cartridge. 3 options on midway all sig. The 7bc might fare slightly better, but I doubt it.
Edit- the 7bc currently has 5 options on midway, all federal. Weird no one else has jumped in on it.

 

[cal30_sniper]

I haven't followed it all, that is just a major item that the hype machine keeps trying to downplay.


You asked about the pushback in THIS community.


Well... the dies weren't around for most of this time. Certain die makers couldn't get something they were happy with. Lee has a warning on their page for their die. A lot of flags pointing to the fact this might not actually be easily reloadable... I don't blame someone for not running out and spending their money on a barrel/rifle with all those red flags currently. I look forward to someone trying and ideally it is reloadable but will remain skeptical based on how things have played out to date. Happy to amend my impression with actual proof and not salesman statements, which is really all that has been available most of this time.


Its not a red herring, many folks don't like certain load combos and want to use the bullets they want to use (not the few federal loads for) and you're screwed if the factory ammo doesn't shoot well in your barrel/rifle. You mean the community that embraces bullet advancements, finds it cool when folks create various wild cats, embraced a fugly stock, etc.? That community that you claim is resistant? Yeah sorry not buying it.



The rollout had a big obvious shill component and downplayed the issues/short comings of the current situation, that is something that will turn some folks off.

This seems like a really long way to write “if you’re dead set on reloading your own ammo no matter what, this may not be the route for you right now”. There’s a whole option of (the very few) people that actually fall into that category to just not buy one that’s being overlooked in all this slinging.

You mean the community that embraces bullet advancements, finds it cool when folks create various wild cats, embraced a fugly stock, etc.? That community that you claim is resistant? Yeah sorry not buying it.

This is exactly the contradiction that I’m referring to. Seems like some of the people who have been quite vocal about following the data and throwing out preconceived notions and historical thought in the debate on small calibers (rightfully so) are also resorting to conjecture, hand waving, and narrow arguments on the lack of established reloading practices (hypocritically so) when talking about the 7BC.

I don’t mean this to come across as argumentative, I just see it as a weird disconnect in approaching what I view as similar strands of somewhat revolutionary thought.

 

[cal30_sniper]

The .277 has been around since 2019. It’s a dead cartridge. 3 options on midway all sig. The 7bc might fare slightly better, but I doubt it.

None of them have to survive as an individual cartridge to establish a major shift in the industry.

The 6mm Lee Navy, .303 British, .30-40 Krag, and many others like them are also essentially “dead cartridges”, but look at the generational shifts that they ushered in.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Don't tell the public it's reloadable, put out a video on reloading and how easy it is, and then months later, still crickets. The guys chasing high velocity in short suppressed rifles are usually reloaders. The overlap here is extremely high.

The cartridge is cool, but I'm struggling to see the benefit for the layman buying it.

The bolded portion is exactly what I see this cartridge potentially changing. People may not really NEED to handload or chase overbore (and often wildcat) cartridges to attain these types of velocities if factory offerings similar to the 7BC become more prevalent.

I think the benefit of this cartridge is for the significant majority of folks who don’t handload but very well might be interested in an easy button for short barreled suppressed hunting rifles. Right now high performance in that arena is almost exclusive to cartridges that need handloading. This could be a big step in shifting that metric.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

The way things are marketed turns a lot of people off these days.

A lot of people just reflexively don’t like anything new.

I don’t see why *this* community *should* have embraced this 7mm option. If it was a 6mm Backcountry, I think it would be a lot more interesting to folks around here.

 

[cal30_sniper]

The way things are marketed turns a lot of people off these days.

A lot of people just reflexively don’t like anything new.

I don’t see why *this* community *should* have embraced this 7mm option. If it was a 6mm Backcountry, I think it would be a lot more interesting to folks around here.

Not embracing it, I can certainly understand. I’m certainly not in line to buy one. But the recurring active campaigning against it I’m having trouble comprehending. Seems like it’s not too hard to look forward to this technology being applied to other chamberings (like a 6mm option) if the technology picks up steam.

 

[ReaptheHeat]

The way things are marketed turns a lot of people off these days.

A lot of people just reflexively don’t like anything new.

I don’t see why *this* community *should* have embraced this 7mm option. If it was a 6mm Backcountry, I think it would be a lot more interesting to folks around here.

Actually a lot of us were really into the launch of this but were quickly turned off by Federal being shady AF. Don't give us half truths and lies for months and expect us to talk good about it

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I don't claim to have all the answers. As a general rule - and lots of companies violate this one - under promise and over deliver. There was a lot of hype around this cartridge. There were a lot of obvious marketing plants when it was announced. When I was young, I was naive enough not to know that the stories in American Rifleman or American Hunter were also advertisements. But these days, I am much more skeptical of a lot of marketing efforts. If you have to promote something really hard, I get suspicious of it.

I am also manifestly not the target audience for this cartridge. I don't pretend to be. I'm a "keep it simple stupid" and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy. I own a lot of rifles, but my collection should start with a .223 and stop with a .243.

Like the OP, I would like to know what Federal is paying to shill for the 7mm Backcountry. As Liz Phair said, "it's nice to be liked, but it's better by far to get paid."

 

[omicron1792]

I do have to wonder, since the rifles dont need anything special, if there will be alloy cases available for existing cartridges with redefined SAAMI specs. So for instance a 6.5CM/BC, 308 Win/BC, etc.

They would probably have to make it clear that they are not recommended for existing autoloaders. I would bet they wouldnt play nice.

Already people doing that with the nas3 cases from shell shock. They will have a 6arc ammo out soon. Already have 223.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Already people doing that with the nas3 cases from shell shock. They will have a 6arc ammo out soon. Already have 223.

Heck, I’m already wondering what can be done with wolf steel cases 223 “brass” that always ends up in the trash.

 

[bnewt3]

Heck, I’m already wondering what can be done with wolf steel cases 223 “brass” that always ends up in the trash.

WAY different steel