Mandatory Military Service

[longhorn8011]

I think the military provides major advantages in teaching discipline and how to work as a team to accomplish a common objective, but forcing conscription on the population is not my idea of freedom. A better idea would be to put national requirements around public school PE classes for every age level. Make it mandatory to have a PE class every semester and structure it to be more regimented like military training instead of recess, dodge ball, or whatever they do these days. Maybe you could deploy a service member to every school as the PE teacher (although this would require the military to create a new program to train recruits how to manage each grade level appropriately and would be very expensive). At minimum, the teacher should be required to meet certain physical fitness and cognitive demands.

I typically want less government involvement in everything, and I think the Department of Education has been a failure at the national level. I would rather educational decisions be made locally or by the parents, but this is one area where I would appreciate some national conformity. We need a population that is in better shape, and since most families no longer work on the farm or ranch like the old days, maybe this would be a way to better encourage physical fitness and mental fortitude.

It would be very difficult to get something like this implemented and even harder to enforce. I’m sure it would get all sorts of protests and backlash, but it could be beneficial if the right plan was in place.

 

[Wheels]

Would bone spurs exempt me?

 

[Sccritterkiller]

Let's take the greatest military on the planet and fill it with a bunch of folks thay don't want to be there...That will make better...Brilliant!

 

[RockAndSage]

Forced conscription into our professionalized, All-Volunteer Force would be like drafting a random selection of neighborhood kids to serve on an NFL team, randomly mixing them in across the positions - it's a guaranteed way to turn that team to $h*t, regardless of what it does for "society" or those kids.

That said - the single biggest problem in not having mandatory service, is that fewer people know anyone who served, and you get a bifurcated society of those who have had that objective contact with reality and not having their way, and those who have not. And, practically speaking, almost nobody living in urban centers will have had service time, which will in turn cause those populations to become even more detached from reality, and even more radicalized.

There's also the issue of us currently not having anything where most of the population has had a shared experience of some kind, especially with people from other parts of the country. That further fractures us as a nation.

The best approach I've been able to think through on this over the years, is a mandatory year or two for all males and females into some kind of public works initiative, similar to what we had during the great depression, but broader and not just rural. Everything from cleaning parks and building trails to sweeping sidewalks and keeping roadsides free of overgrowth and trash. Extend that into some more skilled areas for kids showing interest and initiative, and maybe even into apprenticeships with participating companies.

 

[Reburn]

I love the book Starship Troopers. Movie needed work. Another great idea from that book was punishing people with pain instead of time. I guarantee you wouldn't steal a car again after getting 20 lashes in the public square. Imagine how much money that would save on prisons.

Bro.
The movie was, and still is glorious.
I watched it last week.

Yea almost like assbeatings work better for childern than time out.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

The message has been conveyed before but losing our all volunteer force would concern me. Especially with reductions in force, early retirements, etc etc - overwhelming would prefer a volunteer force unless we need to rapidly increase the size of the military.

I get the sentiment but with out population size relative to military size, do not believe it makes sense.

 

[2531usmc]

Let's take the greatest military on the planet and fill it with a bunch of folks thay don't want to be there...That will make better...Brilliant!

The Army was generally understood to be broken towards the tail end of the Vietnam war. Gen Colin Powell was one of the architects rebuilding the Army. He saw that the high percentage of draftees (morale, attitude, legal problems) was a big part of the problem. This was one primary drivers to permanently end the draft and move to a highly paid professional force.

The results pretty much speak for themselves

 

[chanson_roland]

I love the book Starship Troopers. Movie needed work. Another great idea from that book was punishing people with pain instead of time. I guarantee you wouldn't steal a car again after getting 20 lashes in the public square. Imagine how much money that would save on prisons.

You realize that Heinlein wrote that book as a criticism of fascism, right?

The Army was generally understood to be broken towards the tail end of the Vietnam war. Gen Colin Powell was one of the architects rebuilding the Army. He saw that the high percentage of draftees (morale, attitude, legal problems) was a big part of the problem. This was one primary drivers to permanently end the draft and move to a highly paid professional force.

The results pretty much speak for themselves

This. People don't realize how broken the Army was after Vietnam, and how much work was done between the middle 70's and Desert Storm to rebuild it.

 

[S.Clancy]

I think cost of something like this needs to be considered, both short and long term. Look at the percent of the federal budget that goes in to just VA disability payments, then consider those would go up substantially with mandated service by everyone, not to mention the increase in pension payments, VA health, etc, etc.

 

[307]

Mandatory civil service of some sort, I can probably get behind that.

Rights and responsibilities must have some balance for a society to function. We're all about the rights but fall short on the responsibilities much of the time.

 

[Weldor]

How about something like the CCC ?

 

[roadrunner]

"Service" simply means providing an action for and in behalf of others. There are lots of different kinds.

"Volunteer" simply means making a choice to perform some action, normally for the benefit of others.

Those who do both willingly rarely, if ever, ask for anything in return - essentially you do it with the mindset of no compensation.

Service is now attached to job roles: medical, hospitality, retail, public safety, and national defense. Simply put, service now has a dollar figure assigned to it.

Don't think that forcing military service, or allowing government in general, to replace accountability and responsibility of parents in the home of what their duties are is the answer to a broken society...

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

When I graduated from college (1963), I was drafted within 6 months. I had an engineering degree and was working in the aerospace industry on the Apollo Program. So what was my military occupation......? Because I had played college football I was assigned to Special Services to play football for the 4th Army for 2 years. It was really a necessary military assignment.........but it beat going to Viet Nam! Yes I could have been an officer, but it would require me to spend 3 years on active duty. It was a total waste of time for me!

 

[roadrunner]

I think this went over most peoples heads. Its not the worst idea. As the population grows it seems more barriers to entry are needed.

Birth rate in the USA has been on a steady decline since 1990 with a sudden spike in 2024 and 2025.

Population growth has probably been more of a function of "immigration".

 

[wowzers]

I think this went over most peoples heads. Its not the worst idea. As the population grows it seems more barriers to entry are needed.

At our countries founding voting was limited to landowners. I don't think that is the right approach but Military or Federal service is within everyone's grasp.

I love the book Starship Troopers. Movie needed work. Another great idea from that book was punishing people with pain instead of time. I guarantee you wouldn't steal a car again after getting 20 lashes in the public square. Imagine how much money that would save on prisons.

It was on the Commandant's reading list when I was in. Really surprised me based on my only knowledge at the time being the movie until I got into it.

 

[Quandary]

The estimated number of 18 and 19 year old residents in the US in 2024 was approximately 8.8 million. The number of people in the US military in 2025;
Active Duty - 1.31 million
Nat Guard/Reserves - .765 million
Civilian Employees - .788 million

Total 2.86 million

I don't think mandatory service would work to well....

 

[wowzers]

You realize that Heinlein wrote that book as a criticism of fascism, right?

I don't think that is correct. The director of the movie said he satirized his version based on what he saw as fascist elements of the novel, but that is his take. Again it was on all the Services reading list at one point.

 

[average]

About as silly as mandatory prison

 

[Reburn]

Birth rate in the USA has been on a steady decline since 1990 with a sudden spike in 2024 and 2025.

Population growth has probably been more of a function of "immigration".

Correct.
Our economy also needs positive population growth for growth to continue. It has to come from babies or immigration. Either get to making babies or letting in immigrants legally.

 

[307]

Our economy also needs positive population growth for growth to continue.

Is this still true, in the age of AI and automation replacing labor? And is it sustainable in the long run? "We" can't expand indefinitely.

It certainly has been successful in the past, but I don't think it's the only way, especially if evaluated on a per capita basis rather than total GDP basis.