What happened to Vortex?

[Glad2BNico]

I still use vortex as they're local and it's what I've got. Hopefully as finances allow, I'll be able to upgrade, but of the four pieces I own, 3 of them have had to be sent in. That and I got into an argument with one of their CS guys about how trig works when the HCD mode of a rangefinder wasn't working. I talked with the "technical expert" and they realized their entire product line had a bug... They upgraded me to the next higher rangefinder, but the interaction still left a sour taste in my mouth.

 

[nobody]

I don't think anything necessarily "happened" to Vortex that wasn't already happening when they first hit it big in the optics industry. They haven't really changed anything, same marketing campaigns and same business models. The difference is everyone else and their dog is offering "high value," "bang-for-the-buck," "good for the money," type options now. Even the mighty Gold Ring has fallen flat on its face. Vortex was the first, true, working man's optics brand in the 21st century. They marketed better than companies like Leupold, adopted new scope tech (functional or not) before companies like Leupold, and they pioneered the warranty game to what it is today (yes, I know Leupold had a lifetime warranty before Vortex, but their performance on warranty claims paled in comparison to what Vortex rolled out, and still does).

The thing is, now everybody and their dog is offering comparable products. So now they just kind of get swallowed up in the noise and the product offerings. Seems like everyday there's a new mousetrap, with companies like Athlon offering similar products at similar price points. Case in point with the Athlon, before my adoption of the SWFA's on my hunting rifles, I decided to pick up an Ares BTR Gen 2. I called up Athlon and asked them point blank what this optic offered and what type of performance I could expect for the +/- $1k it was going to cost me. Their response: "Have you ever handled a Viper PST Gen II? If you have, it's basically the same." They didn't offer me any specs from their own mouths, they didn't say anything positive about their products to try to differentiate it in any way. They literally just told me I was buying a PST Gen II equivalent and that if I was happy with a PST Gen II, I would be happy with an Ares BTR Gen 2. That's the type of stranglehold Vortex has on the mid-range optics industry, and that's from the view of their competition.

Point is, I don't think Vortex is doing anything that they haven't been doing since their inception. I just think everybody is using the same sauce and marketing it as something different. The perceived value in today's market is gone because lots of companies are trying to do the same thing. The real test will be when we slip into a recession. My guess is Vortex will survive, but some of their direct competitors (like Athlon) may not, simply because at the end of the day, Vortex has more brand recognition. This is all speculation, of course, but it will be interesting to see.

I think another mistake people make when looking at Vortex is comparing it against the wrong market. They have some high end offerings (Razor UHD Binos, Fury AB Binos, etc.), but most of their stuff is pretty middle-of-the-road. I think that, because they were so popular for such a long time after they first hit the market, people kind of forgot the type of company they are. They're not trying to compete with Swaro and Leica and Zeiss, but people compared them as a "relative value" proposition to those brands, and still do to some extent. But people should be comparing them to Leupold, Nikon, Sig, Athlon, even Bushnell in some pricing tiers. And IMO, Vortex blows most offerings from those companies out of the water without even breaking a sweat.

We just have so stinkin' many options on the market now, and it seems like there's a new direct-to-consumer, high value, bang-for-the-buck optics company popping up every day. Vortex has held its own really well in the market from a business standpoint, and only time will tell if their competition can do the same.

Anyways, that's my two cents. And full disclosure, roughly 80% of my observation optics loadout and tripod (no Vortex riflescopes allowed in my safe) is from Vortex, so take that for what its worth.

 

[SDHNTR]

I think people got wide, that’s it

Very significant problem in the US for sure! The average American is definitely too wide!

 

[Balderdash]

I don't think anything necessarily "happened" to Vortex that wasn't already happening when they first hit it big in the optics industry. They haven't really changed anything, same marketing campaigns and same business models. The difference is everyone else and their dog is offering "high value," "bang-for-the-buck," "good for the money," type options now. Even the mighty Gold Ring has fallen flat on its face. Vortex was the first, true, working man's optics brand in the 21st century. They marketed better than companies like Leupold, adopted new scope tech (functional or not) before companies like Leupold, and they pioneered the warranty game to what it is today (yes, I know Leupold had a lifetime warranty before Vortex, but their performance on warranty claims paled in comparison to what Vortex rolled out, and still does).

The thing is, now everybody and their dog is offering comparable products. So now they just kind of get swallowed up in the noise and the product offerings. Seems like everyday there's a new mousetrap, with companies like Athlon offering similar products at similar price points. Case in point with the Athlon, before my adoption of the SWFA's on my hunting rifles, I decided to pick up an Ares BTR Gen 2. I called up Athlon and asked them point blank what this optic offered and what type of performance I could expect for the +/- $1k it was going to cost me. Their response: "Have you ever handled a Viper PST Gen II? If you have, it's basically the same." They didn't offer me any specs from their own mouths, they didn't say anything positive about their products to try to differentiate it in any way. They literally just told me I was buying a PST Gen II equivalent and that if I was happy with a PST Gen II, I would be happy with an Ares BTR Gen 2. That's the type of stranglehold Vortex has on the mid-range optics industry, and that's from the view of their competition.

Point is, I don't think Vortex is doing anything that they haven't been doing since their inception. I just think everybody is using the same sauce and marketing it as something different. The perceived value in today's market is gone because lots of companies are trying to do the same thing. The real test will be when we slip into a recession. My guess is Vortex will survive, but some of their direct competitors (like Athlon) may not, simply because at the end of the day, Vortex has more brand recognition. This is all speculation, of course, but it will be interesting to see.

I think another mistake people make when looking at Vortex is comparing it against the wrong market. They have some high end offerings (Razor UHD Binos, Fury AB Binos, etc.), but most of their stuff is pretty middle-of-the-road. I think that, because they were so popular for such a long time after they first hit the market, people kind of forgot the type of company they are. They're not trying to compete with Swaro and Leica and Zeiss, but people compared them as a "relative value" proposition to those brands, and still do to some extent. But people should be comparing them to Leupold, Nikon, Sig, Athlon, even Bushnell in some pricing tiers. And IMO, Vortex blows most offerings from those companies out of the water without even breaking a sweat.

We just have so stinkin' many options on the market now, and it seems like there's a new direct-to-consumer, high value, bang-for-the-buck optics company popping up every day. Vortex has held its own really well in the market from a business standpoint, and only time will tell if their competition can do the same.

Anyways, that's my two cents. And full disclosure, roughly 80% of my observation optics loadout (including my tripod) is from Vortex, so take that for what its worth.

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for writing it out and the full disclosure.

Since they started, I have been comparing model over model between them and other brands in thier respective price tiers, and I have very rarely chose the Vortex offerings. For one reason or another, I always felt like the competition had something better going for it. I've owned 2 Razor scopes, but not for very long; after using each briefly, I found I didn't care for the reticles, or more specifically, how the reticles appeared at different X's as compared to other scopes I have.

Because I've never owned many, I can't speak to quality differences in Vortex offerings over time, but it's clear to see that their original marketing and sales paradigm has potentially negatively impacted thier current competitive advantage.

What Vortex had when they started was immediate availability coupled with in store fan boys. You'd go to any shop, and they likely had a lot of Vortex product available for purchase. For a lot of the hunting public, that was good enough; they wanted or needed something different, and they were going with what was available in front of them. Internet research wasn't as voluminous or easily accessible. Further, either through deep discounts, free merch, or just familiarity, Vortex was good at getting the behind the counter guys to push their stuff. I recall more than one occasion at the local Cabela's and other shops wherein the counter staff tried hard to push every person looking at optics into a Vortex.

That was in the days before internet sales comprised as large of a market share as it currently has. These days, I'd wager that most scopes are bought sight unseen via the internet, which opens a lot of market share to both direct sale companies and companies with higher end offerings that never had much shelf space at brick and mortar stores.

 

[dirtytough]

I like Vortex for a few certain things. One is a cheap red dot to play around with on a fun gun. I don’t need something expensive for that. And with electronics being what they are I figure most cheaper red dots will eventually fail. Vortex is the perfect company for something like that.

Their Radian tripod. There are a ton of tripods now from China that are all close to the same price/quality/functionality. Why not get the one that will be replaced if you accidentally run it over after hunting for 20 hours?

As for their high end stuff? I tried looking through the big Razor spotter at a whitetail. I couldn’t believe how bad the picture was. I couldn’t get it clear even on low power. I wouldn’t of spent $200 on it. Maybe it was a lemon? No clue.

It’s pretty hard to have a no questions asked warranty, the same quality, for the same price as your competitors that don’t have the same warranty. So I believe, (and I could be way wrong in my belief) that a $$ product from Vortex is more equal to a $ product from someone else. Someone else won’t have as good of a warranty though.

 

[ClearCreek]

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for writing it out and the full disclosure.

Since they started, I have been comparing model over model between them and other brands in thier respective price tiers, and I have very rarely chose the Vortex offerings. For one reason or another, I always felt like the competition had something better going for it. I've owned 2 Razor scopes, but not for very long; after using each briefly, I found I didn't care for the reticles, or more specifically, how the reticles appeared at different X's as compared to other scopes I have.

Because I've never owned many, I can't speak to quality differences in Vortex offerings over time, but it's clear to see that their original marketing and sales paradigm has potentially negatively impacted thier current competitive advantage.

What Vortex had when they started was immediate availability coupled with in store fan boys. You'd go to any shop, and they likely had a lot of Vortex product available for purchase. For a lot of the hunting public, that was good enough; they wanted or needed something different, and they were going with what was available in front of them. Internet research wasn't as voluminous or easily accessible. Further, either through deep discounts, free merch, or just familiarity, Vortex was good at getting the behind the counter guys to push their stuff. I recall more than one occasion at the local Cabela's and other shops wherein the counter staff tried hard to push every person looking at optics into a Vortex.

I was told by an employee of my local chain sporting goods store that employees got "credit" for each Vortex product sold and eventually an employee, with enough credits, could obtain highly discounted or free Vortex products.

This was the reason Vortex products were pushed so much at that, and other stores in the chain.

ClearCreek

 

[rickjames80]

My issue with Vortex is that whatever costs $499 today, three weeks from now it will be on sale for $349. Then three weeks later it will be $299 and so on. So whatever price you pay for it, it never holds its value. The other thing that turned me away, was when they released their 65mm years ago. They were making everything in Japan, then swapped to China and kept the higher prices...

 

[KHNC]

The Japan glass is much better than the CHina stuff of today for sure.

 

[SummitsCalling]

I was told by an employee of my local chain sporting goods store that employees got "credit" for each Vortex product sold and eventually an employee, with enough credits, could obtain highly discounted or free Vortex products.

This was the reason Vortex products were pushed so much at that, and other stores in the chain.

ClearCreek

Makes sense, marketing 101.

Nothing has really changed, probably just their marketing budget. Never trust anyone who gets paid to push a product, they will just push the one that pays next time.

 

[fwafwow]

I was told by an employee of my local chain sporting goods store that employees got "credit" for each Vortex product sold and eventually an employee, with enough credits, could obtain highly discounted or free Vortex products.

This was the reason Vortex products were pushed so much at that, and other stores in the chain.

ClearCreek

This could be in addition to many employees getting discounts through Expert Voice - which I believe is 50% off - but that discount is not tied to sales, and includes other optics manufacturers (including NF).

 

[Balderdash]

I don't think anything necessarily "happened" to Vortex that wasn't already happening when they first hit it big in the optics industry. They haven't really changed anything, same marketing campaigns and same business models. The difference is everyone else and their dog is offering "high value," "bang-for-the-buck," "good for the money," type options now. Even the mighty Gold Ring has fallen flat on its face. Vortex was the first, true, working man's optics brand in the 21st century. They marketed better than companies like Leupold, adopted new scope tech (functional or not) before companies like Leupold, and they pioneered the warranty game to what it is today (yes, I know Leupold had a lifetime warranty before Vortex, but their performance on warranty claims paled in comparison to what Vortex rolled out, and still does).

The thing is, now everybody and their dog is offering comparable products. So now they just kind of get swallowed up in the noise and the product offerings. Seems like everyday there's a new mousetrap, with companies like Athlon offering similar products at similar price points. Case in point with the Athlon, before my adoption of the SWFA's on my hunting rifles, I decided to pick up an Ares BTR Gen 2. I called up Athlon and asked them point blank what this optic offered and what type of performance I could expect for the +/- $1k it was going to cost me. Their response: "Have you ever handled a Viper PST Gen II? If you have, it's basically the same." They didn't offer me any specs from their own mouths, they didn't say anything positive about their products to try to differentiate it in any way. They literally just told me I was buying a PST Gen II equivalent and that if I was happy with a PST Gen II, I would be happy with an Ares BTR Gen 2. That's the type of stranglehold Vortex has on the mid-range optics industry, and that's from the view of their competition.

Point is, I don't think Vortex is doing anything that they haven't been doing since their inception. I just think everybody is using the same sauce and marketing it as something different. The perceived value in today's market is gone because lots of companies are trying to do the same thing. The real test will be when we slip into a recession. My guess is Vortex will survive, but some of their direct competitors (like Athlon) may not, simply because at the end of the day, Vortex has more brand recognition. This is all speculation, of course, but it will be interesting to see.

I think another mistake people make when looking at Vortex is comparing it against the wrong market. They have some high end offerings (Razor UHD Binos, Fury AB Binos, etc.), but most of their stuff is pretty middle-of-the-road. I think that, because they were so popular for such a long time after they first hit the market, people kind of forgot the type of company they are. They're not trying to compete with Swaro and Leica and Zeiss, but people compared them as a "relative value" proposition to those brands, and still do to some extent. But people should be comparing them to Leupold, Nikon, Sig, Athlon, even Bushnell in some pricing tiers. And IMO, Vortex blows most offerings from those companies out of the water without even breaking a sweat.

We just have so stinkin' many options on the market now, and it seems like there's a new direct-to-consumer, high value, bang-for-the-buck optics company popping up every day. Vortex has held its own really well in the market from a business standpoint, and only time will tell if their competition can do the same.

Anyways, that's my two cents. And full disclosure, roughly 80% of my observation optics loadout (including my tripod) is from Vortex, so take that for what its worth.

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for writing it out and the full disclosure.

Since they started, I have been comparing model over model between them and other brands in thier respective price tiers, and I have very rarely chose the Vortex offerings. For one reason or another, I always felt like the competition had something better going for it. I've owned 2 Razor scopes, but not for very long; after using each briefly, I found I didn't care for the reticles, or more specifically, how the reticles appeared at different X's as compared to other scopes I have.

Because I've never owned many, I can't speak to quality differences in Vortex offerings over time, but it's clear to see that their original marketing and sales paradigm has potentially negatively impacted thier competitive advantage. What Vortex had when they started is availability and in store fan boys. You'd go to any shop, and they likely had a lot of Vortex product available for direct purchase. For a lot of the hunting public, that was good enough; they wanted or needed something different, and they were going with what was available in front of them. Internet research wasn't as voluminous or easily accessible. Further, either through deep discounts, free merch, or just familiarity, Vortex was good at getting the behind the counter guys to push their stuff. I recall more than one occasion at the local Cabela's and other shops wherein the counter staff tried hard to push every person looking at optics into a Vortex.

That was in the days before internet sales comprised as large of a market share as it currently has. These days, I'd wager that most scopes are bought sight unseen via the internet, which opens a lot of market share to both direct sale companies and companies with higher end offerings that never had much shelf space at brick and mortar stores.

I was told by an employee of my local chain sporting goods store that employees got "credit" for each Vortex product sold and eventually an employee, with enough credits, could obtain highly discounted or free Vortex products.

This was the reason Vortex products were pushed so much at that, and other stores in the chain.

ClearCreek

Exactly. And that model of in store employees pushing product obviously worked very well for them. The had a meteoric rise from never heard of to they're everywhere.

On one occasion I was buying a rifle at a local big box store. They guy behind the counter kept on me about what I was going to put on it for a scope. I tried several times to kindly deflect his assertions that I need to put on a vortex, but he wouldn't quit. So finally I told him that I've looked through and used plenty of them, but just didn't see what all the hype was about, other than widespread hats, T shirts, and stickers. He went on to tell me that his 308 had broken 2 Vortex and that they replaced them no trouble. At the time I was dealing with Swaro CS over some trouble I had with one of their scopes, so I replied that I wasn't interested in any more scopes that routinely need to be sent back in.

 

[centershot]

I think where Vortex gets a 'bad name' is that people tend to compare a cheaper Diamondback (or whatever line) to a Swaro or Night Force. Well no kidding the Diamondback is not as good. You could nearly buy it for what you paid in sales tax on the others.......Vortex does have some nice stuff - the Viper/Razor lines are pretty dang good for most users and at a price point they can afford. The Razor line is excellent quality with view that rivals the very best at a price point that is typically substantially less. I've never had any issue with any of their 'set and forget' scopes with BDC or plex reticles. I've not spent much time dialing any cheap scopes including Vortex. IF that is your deal and you are really serious then you will probably have to at least double your budget over Vortex offerings. I currently have a Viper 10x42 that I have compared directly to my 10x42 SLC's and 10x42 HD Trinovids and it more than holds it's own - it may even be a tad brighter than the Trinovids.

Bottom line: For the average joe family guy on a budget that hunts a couple weeks a year, shoots a box or two a year, they have a scope for that. For the guy that shoots every weekend, they have a scope for that also. They are just not the same scope or same price tag.

FWIW: I'm no fanboy of any brand. I own or have owned scopes/binos from Zeiss, Leica, Swaro, Burris, Leupold, Night Force, Vortex, even Tasco from 40 years ago. You get what you pay for......to a point then you pay a lot for a little.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

I think where Vortex gets a 'bad name' is that people tend to compare a cheaper Diamondback (or whatever line) to a Swaro or Night Force.

I don't. I have never known anyone who wasn't aware that Vortex makes entry level and higher end scopes.

 

[centershot]

I don't. I have never known anyone who wasn't aware that Vortex makes entry level and higher end scopes.

The brand name gets mentioned in the same sentence a lot.........not so much which level.

 

[fwafwow]

The brand name gets mentioned in the same sentence a lot.........not so much which level.

Maybe @Fartrell Cluggins meant it is obvious or implicit that you factor in the level and price.

 

[centershot]

It should be...........

 

[Huntin Fool]

It should be...........

Yeah it should be but there’s literally a guy in this thread that went from vipers to swaro and compares the 2. It’s pretty obvious a pair of vipers should lose that battle, now if you went with the uhd vs swaro, it might be a closer battle. And this isn’t the first time I’ve herd these types of comparisons

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Yeah it should be but there’s literally a guy in this thread that went from vipers to swaro and compares the 2. It’s pretty obvious a pair of vipers should lose that battle, now if you went with the uhd vs swaro, it might be a closer battle. And this isn’t the first time I’ve herd these types of comparisons

Go the other way (use search engine of your choice). Vortex fans have been claiming "just as good as Swarovski" for a very long time (pre-UHD days).

 

[Huntin Fool]

Go the other way (use search engine of your choice). Vortex fans have been claiming "just as good as Swarovski" for a very long time (pre-UHD days).

I personally wouldn’t make that claim but if I did I wouldn’t be using their mid tier binos to do it

 

[svivian]

I was told by an employee of my local chain sporting goods store that employees got "credit" for each Vortex product sold and eventually an employee, with enough credits, could obtain highly discounted or free Vortex products.

This was the reason Vortex products were pushed so much at that, and other stores in the chain.

ClearCreek

Many brands do this including a very popular alpha brand….