What do you make of these groups?

[<cascadehunter>]

Finally got to do some real load development yesterday. Shooting 460gr NE over an MMP BBSB with 777 2F. Scoped Knight Mountaineer. I was really hoping to be under 2 inches at 100. Much of this could be shooter induced, ontop of a stout but inconsistent wind yesterday. Should I continue to test different loads or is 95gr my ticket? I’d like to shoot a handful more groups of it on a calmer and cooler day.

 

[JasonWi]

Finally got to do some real load development yesterday. Shooting 460gr NE over an MMP BBSB with 777 2F. Scoped Knight Mountaineer. I was really hoping to be under 2 inches at 100. Much of this could be shooter induced, ontop of a stout but inconsistent wind yesterday. Should I continue to test different loads or is 95gr my ticket? I’d like to shoot a handful more groups of it on a calmer and cooler day

I think the 95 V load definitely shows promise. What distances are you expecting to shoot with your MZ? Are you hunting where the scope is legal or just for load development?

I'm shooting open sights preparing for my Nevada hunt and I'm tickled to be shooting 2.2-2.6" groups @ 100, again that's not scoped.

 

[<cascadehunter>]

I think the 95 V load definitely shows promise. What distances are you expecting to shoot with your MZ? Are you hunting where the scope is legal or just for load development?

I'm shooting open sights preparing for my Nevada hunt and I'm tickled to be shooting 2.2-2.6" groups @ 100, again that's not scoped.

The scope is purely for load development, I’ll be switching to a peep. I’m really hoping to get comfortable at 200, no desire to go further. The tighter I can get it now, the more confident I’ll feel with irons. What kind of groups were you making with a scope, assuming you developed a load with a scope?

 

[ElDiablito]

Even 2 ish inches isn’t terrible. After shooting multiple loads in multiple muzzies over the past 35 years, my experience has been that 1.5” is pretty standard in most rifles with the best load.

I’d definitely try it again on a calm day. And try a wool wad instead of the sub base.

 

[<cascadehunter>]

Even 2 ish inches isn’t terrible. After shooting multiple loads in multiple muzzies over the past 35 years, my experience has been that 1.5” is pretty standard in most rifles with the best load.

I’d definitely try it again on a calm day. And try a wool wad instead of the sub base.

I’ll give the wool wads a try. Do you like to size up on them? Yesterday was hot enough to make the lube on my bullets liquid, any chance that a wool wads would get soaked and contaminate powder?

 

[JasonWi]

The scope is purely for load development, I’ll be switching to a peep. I’m really hoping to get comfortable at 200, no desire to go further. The tighter I can get it now, the more confident I’ll feel with irons. What kind of groups were you making with a scope, assuming you developed a load with a scope?

Yes, I tested powder charges and group sizes with a cheap scope and then swapped over once I was happy with the accuracy. It was 1.92” with the scope.

Where I really struggled was with my Williams Western precision fine cross hairs. I shot terrible groups! It was like 5.5-6.5” groups, swapped to the .19” fiber optic and shot the two groups I mentioned above. For whatever reason my eyes just didn’t agree with the couple of mental inserts I tried

Not in this gun my Oregon specific MZ I use .54 cal wads for my .50 cal. Never had the lube hot enough to melt before so can’t comment on that question

 

[ElDiablito]

I’ll give the wool wads a try. Do you like to size up on them? Yesterday was hot enough to make the lube on my bullets liquid, any chance that a wool wads would get soaked and contaminate powder?

Yes, oversized. I’d use dry wool. I wouldn’t worry about powder contamination over a short period of time.

 

[PathFinder]

Yes, I tested powder charges and group sizes with a cheap scope and then swapped over once I was happy with the accuracy. It was 1.92” with the scope.

Where I really struggled was with my Williams Western precision fine cross hairs. I shot terrible groups! It was like 5.5-6.5” groups, swapped to the .19” fiber optic and shot the two groups I mentioned above. For whatever reason my eyes just didn’t agree with the couple of mental inserts I tried

Not in this gun my Oregon specific MZ I use .54 cal wads for my .50 cal. Never had the lube hot enough to melt before so can’t comment on that question

Try a bigger aiming point for the open sights, much bigger. I use a 6" circle with 1" wide crosshairs on it at 100 yards with the fine crosshair front sight.

 

[JasonWi]

Try a bigger aiming point for the open sights, much bigger. I use a 6" circle with 1" wide crosshairs on it at 100 yards with the fine crosshair front sight.

Thank you for the advice. That’s exactly what I tried and I consistently shoot with the fiber optic better.

Shot again yesterday and swapped the sight inserts and same thing happened again. I really want to use the metal crosshairs but they’re simply not as accurate for me.

 

[<cascadehunter>]

Thank you for the advice. That’s exactly what I tried and I consistently shoot with the fiber optic better.

Shot again yesterday and swapped the sight inserts and same thing happened again. I really want to use the metal crosshairs but they’re simply not as accurate for me.

I haven’t shot enough of either to have an informed opinion but it seems guys complain about the fiber optic not being fine enough, or the crosshairs getting lost in low light. If you’re doing 2.2-2.6 with a fiber optic… seems like there’s not reason to try the crosshairs. I couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn with the 0.029 fiber but will be trying the 0.019 and possibly a painted crosshair

 

[Rich M]

Good to go with the 95.

 

[CorbLand]

Did you clean in between each shot or what was your cleaning process?

Looking at 85 - 95 charges, you had some three shot groups that stacked in there tight and then two that opened it up. Were the ones stacked tight in consecutive order of shots?

I have one that shots one through three all group good and then shots four and five are who the hell knows. Clean it and it goes back to shots one through three grouping again.

 

[<cascadehunter>]

Did you clean in between each shot or what was your cleaning process?

Looking at 85 - 95 charges, you had some three shot groups that stacked in there tight and then two that opened it up. Were the ones stacked tight in consecutive order of shots?

I have one that shots one through three all group good and then shots four and five are who the hell knows. Clean it and it goes back to shots one through three grouping again.

I windex then dry patched between each shot, and the tight shots were not consecutive, so I don’t suspect there is a trend there, as much as I wish there were.
On that note, I initially was doing:
Windex patch 4 passes each side
Another windex patch 4 passes each side
Dry patch 4 passes
Another dry patch 4 passes
I had two misfires that needed another cap with that process. I pulled the breach plug and it seemed quite muddy.
Then I started:
Windex 4 passes
Dry 4 passes
Windex 4 passes
Dry 4 passes
Pop a cap
Dry 1 pass
Then, no more misfires. Pulled the plug at some point to check and it was nice and dry

Does this sound right? Seems like double the swabbing that most guys are doing. But that’s what it’s taken to break the crud ring and get the bore clean.

 

[CorbLand]

I windex then dry patched between each shot, and the tight shots were not consecutive, so I don’t suspect there is a trend there, as much as I wish there were.
On that note, I initially was doing:
Windex patch 4 passes each side
Another windex patch 4 passes each side
Dry patch 4 passes
Another dry patch 4 passes
I had two misfires that needed another cap with that process. I pulled the breach plug and it seemed quite muddy.
Then I started:
Windex 4 passes
Dry 4 passes
Windex 4 passes
Dry 4 passes
Pop a cap
Dry 1 pass
Then, no more misfires. Pulled the plug at some point to check and it was nice and dry

Does this sound right? Seems like double the swabbing that most guys are doing. But that’s what it’s taken to break the crud ring and get the bore clean.

Bummer. I would definitely load up a few more 95s and shoot that. Seems to be the sweet spot you can start to work off of.

I would also try shooting it to 200. You may get a good enough group that you don’t need to tweak much at all. I say that as someone who, as long as it will kill my intended target at the max range I have set, I call that good enough.

 

[tracker12]

I got my best groups with 80 gr T7 with the NE under a wool wad. When shooting the NE I never clean between shots. Out of my White I can shoot all day and never have a problem loading a lead conical of the proper size.

 

[tx_basser]

Wool wads tightened up my groups nicely for my Trad as well as Inline.