What is the group size you are happy with?

[Luked]

I am still quite new with reloading rifles.
I am starting to figure some things out finally after a ton of reading and asking questions.
The Thread Form has was a huge eye opener.
Still have some work to do with another rifle using Forms method.

With that said what I have been doing is OCW load dev.
The rifle I picked to do this with is my Savage Axis 6.5CM.
I use it hunting here at home for whitetail.
Factory rounds I have used in it for the last couple of years is the Hornady Precision Hunter 143 ELD-x.
Now I will say with the factory rounds I have only ever shot 3 round groups to zero. It will hold a .750 group. But I have never shot the factory stuff for 10 rounds to see how it will hold that way.

So with my current reloads I started as I said earlier doing OCW.
Started at .050 off the lands. The charge weight I ended up at was 40.9 of H4350 with Hornady Cases CCI primers and a 143 ELDx
As it stands now my 10 shot group with this setup netted me the below group.


The 2 outliers were shot 9 & 10. So I think the barrel was starting to move a bit maybe.

So being the person to get bored last night I decided to do some testing with seating depths.
So I loaded 5 each running the same charge and components at .010,.020,.030 & .040 off the lands.
I have the mag length so I wanted to give them a try seated out longer.

So my question to you all experienced guys. When are you happy with a hunting rifle group wise?
I am not a 1000 yard shooter by any means. Maybe at best most shots I would ever have with this rifle in the field is maybe 400.
I have 550 to shoot at my gun club. Which I haven't done yet. But hope to go this weekend.

Would you be happy with the group above for a hunting rifle?

 

[jfk69]

Yes. Sure I like them smaller, but in the real world situation for hunting that would be acceptable to me.

 

[BLJ]

I am still quite new with reloading rifles.
I am starting to figure some things out finally after a ton of reading and asking questions.
The Thread Form has was a huge eye opener.
Still have some work to do with another rifle using Forms method.

With that said what I have been doing is OCW load dev.
The rifle I picked to do this with is my Savage Axis 6.5CM.
I use it hunting here at home for whitetail.
Factory rounds I have used in it for the last couple of years is the Hornady Precision Hunter 143 ELD-x.
Now I will say with the factory rounds I have only ever shot 3 round groups to zero. It will hold a .750 group. But I have never shot the factory stuff for 10 rounds to see how it will hold that way.

So with my current reloads I started as I said earlier doing OCW.
Started at .050 off the lands. The charge weight I ended up at was 40.9 of H4350 with Hornady Cases CCI primers and a 143 ELDx
As it stands now my 10 shot group with this setup netted me the below group.
View attachment 883723
Maybe at best most shots I would ever have with this rifle in the field is maybe 400.

10 dead animals @400 right there.

Would you be happy with the group above for a hunting rifle?

Yes.

ETA. I’m not as picky as most when it comes to killing guns. YMMV.

 

[flyfisher117]

I have never owned a super accurate big game hunting rifle. Both of my Ruger M77s shoot good enough. I would be excited to see a group like that from my one M77 lol.

My Tikka I got it to shooting roughly that group size and called it good. Time and money was better spent practicing with the rifle and not chasing tiny groups. I have the confidence in that rifle doing what it needs to do well past my ethical skills range.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

10 shots in 1.2 moa is what I look for. You're starting to test things that are not going to change 10 round group size in any appreciable way. Check out the painless load development thread and hornadys your groups are too small podcasts.

 

[MallardSX2]

Anything around an inch is good for me.

I'm no ribbon chaser and I don't shoot at animals at 600 yards away.
Could I? Yes.
Do I? No.

 

[sndmn11]

So my question to you all experienced guys. When are you happy with a hunting rifle group wise?
I am not a 1000 yard shooter by any means. Maybe at best most shots I would ever have with this rifle in the field is maybe 400.
I have 550 to shoot at my gun club. Which I haven't done yet. But hope to go this weekend.

Would you be happy with the group above for a hunting rifle?

I would be very happy with that result and shoot at 300yds just to make sure nothing weird happens. I'd also continue shooting 10/100 regularly as a benchmark of you/rifle/optic/load.

I say 300yds because it should be within your capabilities as a shooter. If they all land in a well dispersed cluster under 6" at that distance then you should be happy. There's no sense in fretting over smaller if you haven't proved yourself yet and continue to do so.

I also wouldn't fiddle-eff with seating depths or anything like that. Just take what you have and shoot it until you are certain there's a distinct load problem.

 

[8mille]

If I shoot 20 consecutive rounds of a factory ammo within 2”( two ten round strings mostly), I live with it if many of them within that group were sub MOA. 300 yards would be my max attempt at a harvest until I find better. I don’t like torturing myself. It’s easy to get caught up in; and factory ammo if often too random for shooter’s liking. By the way. The 20 round groups is not necessarily a golden rule for me either. I got a Steyr Mannlicher 30-06 that shoots most factory ammo in a sub MOA quite often. So sometimes you’ll get a feel for a rifle without so much searching.
Reloading the way to go as you already know.
Although that could lead to rabbit holes as they say.

 

[aachey]

I think the larger group testing shows generally 1 moa being average. Thats what i strive for. Less shots generally seem to provide better grouping. Some days i can shoot better than 1 moa, some days i dont. Ultimately the first shot is what matters most in a hunting situation.

 

[willfrye027]

From a custom barrel I want 10 shots into 1 MOA. From a factory tikka I’m good with 1.5” depending on the purpose of the rifle

 

[TaperPin]

Some folks have good luck with factory barrels, but unfortunately I’m not one of them. If two 5 shot groups are stacked together I’ve had one factory barrel that stayed under 1 MOA. Other rifles I reloaded for that I can remember had nine or ten shot stacked groups of 1-1/4, 1-1/2, 1-1/8, 2, 1-1/2, 1-1/4, 1-1/2, 1-1/2, 1-1/4, 1-3/8, 1-1/8, 1-3/8, 1-3/8, and 1-1/4 MOA. A friend had 1, 1-1/8, 1-1/4 MOA rifles. Another friend has 1-1/8, 1-1/8, 1-3/8, and 1-1/4 MOA rifles. At one point I’d buy a used rifle, try to find an accurate load, sell it and buy another identical rifle looking for that elusive consistent MOA rifle. A lot of disappointment since magazines and forums seem to be full of sub MOA rifles, but hunters are naturally optimistic and we keep trying new things.

It’s a big hump to get over mentally to spend as much or more on a new barrel than the original rifle costs, but it can be the quickest easiest way to get that elusive sub MOA pea shooter. No fancy stock, no fancy high magnification scope, no fancy rest, just basic reloading practices and components, and a good barrel will shoot. I was lucky to have an extra accurate one the first time trying a custom barrel, but it boggled my brain that so many of the reloading practices I was meticulous about just didn’t seem to make a difference. At least with the upper tier custom barrels I’ve personally been around chambered in hunting cartridges on basic untrued receivers 10% will be 1/2 MOA or less, 30% 5/8 MOA, 30% 3/4 MOA, 20% 1 MOA and 10% more than 1 MOA. Dropping down to second tier custom barrels add 1/4 MOA to those percentages.

Yep, I have a friend with a factory barreled varmint gun that puts everything in 1/4 MOA. Lucky duck. I’ve never even fired a 1/4 MOA 10 shot group. lol

 

[huntnful]

That group looks excellent. Especially considering 9 & 10 are the high ones.

Basically now you have a very dependable load that you could load up at any time and kill out to your intended distances. So if you want to tinker and see what, if anything, affects your groups in any significant way, have at it!

 

[wind gypsy]

I'd not go chasing unicorns if I got that group with a savage axis unless that's what brings you joy. At least that's what I'd advise folks. I still tinker with different options and chase unicorns a little too much because i'm dumb. Would be much better off spending that time practicing positional and with time stress.

 

[Walla7]

I am still quite new with reloading rifles.
I am starting to figure some things out finally after a ton of reading and asking questions.
The Thread Form has was a huge eye opener.
Still have some work to do with another rifle using Forms method.

With that said what I have been doing is OCW load dev.
The rifle I picked to do this with is my Savage Axis 6.5CM.
I use it hunting here at home for whitetail.
Factory rounds I have used in it for the last couple of years is the Hornady Precision Hunter 143 ELD-x.
Now I will say with the factory rounds I have only ever shot 3 round groups to zero. It will hold a .750 group. But I have never shot the factory stuff for 10 rounds to see how it will hold that way.

So with my current reloads I started as I said earlier doing OCW.
Started at .050 off the lands. The charge weight I ended up at was 40.9 of H4350 with Hornady Cases CCI primers and a 143 ELDx
As it stands now my 10 shot group with this setup netted me the below group.
View attachment 883723

The 2 outliers were shot 9 & 10. So I think the barrel was starting to move a bit maybe.

So being the person to get bored last night I decided to do some testing with seating depths.
So I loaded 5 each running the same charge and components at .010,.020,.030 & .040 off the lands.
I have the mag length so I wanted to give them a try seated out longer.

So my question to you all experienced guys. When are you happy with a hunting rifle group wise?
I am not a 1000 yard shooter by any means. Maybe at best most shots I would ever have with this rifle in the field is maybe 400.
I have 550 to shoot at my gun club. Which I haven't done yet. But hope to go this weekend.

Would you be happy with the group above for a hunting rifle?

i mean it really depends on the application and the gun. A hunting load for a hunting rifle? This is plenty good. A range princess precision target rifle? I'd hope for better. I enjoy chasing smaller groups with the target set up, and I do with the hunting set-up too, but a one MOA group with my hunting rig and I'm satisfied. Typically not reaching out past 500 for hunting anyway.

 

[Vern400]

Your rifle is fine and load is fine for hunting out to 300 or possibly 400 yd if you shoot at those distances regularly. All these rifles that have a one MOA guarantee? Yeah, some of them do it and some of them don't. Sure you can luck out and get a three shot group that's an inch. But you're way better off than the average.

You might be able to make a few tweaks and tighten it up a little bit, but your skills will matter more than 3/8 of an inch off your groups will!

 

[rootacres]

Many guys will go shoot several 3 rd groups, pick the best of all of them, post a pic on here and claim to have an incredibly accurate rifle.

I think a good test and a real good way to get a solid zero is a minimum of 10 rds in a group. I will shoot a handful of 5 rd groups to real in my zero and then shoot a couple 10 rd groups to make sure it's correct.

I think if you can shoot a 10 rd group, out of a hunting rifle, hovering right around 1 MOA, that's pretty damn good. It's a realistic benchmark. The random, one off, 3 rd group pics some guys post throw off what the realistic expectation should be (in my opinion).

 

[Luked]

Thanks a bunch for the help and opinions.
I am happy with what the rifle does for something that is dirt cheap as this rifle was.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Thanks a bunch for the help and opinions.
I am happy with what the rifle does for something that is dirt cheap as this rifle was.

that’s the key. For a cheap rifle you’re doing awesome. If you paid 4000-5000 and a 1.5” guarantee then I’d ask for my money back.

 

[Lawnboi]

I’d be pretty happy with that from a savage.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Why don’t you shoot some groups at 400 and see how it does? I’d gauge my load from 400 over what you shot at 100.
This is how my .308 shoots at 600. I killed an antelope at 540 and an elk at 600 last year with this rifle. I was confident at those distances, as I test my loads for max range.