What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[MT_Wyatt]

I'm just going to chime in here - the point of this thread has been answered. I was not looking for proof, argument, or making a case for smaller caliber based huning. I was asking why this was coming up, and when it started. That being said, the arguments "why" or reasoning has been challenged, multiple times in fact. No biggie, all good discourse. But at this point, we've established the answer, and it doesn't need beat to death any more. It need field time/results/data.

For me personally, there's not a ton of people online that I'm taking this kind of information from and acting on it....there's a few though. I have seen enough that I want to try it in the field. I've got a 6mm barrel getting spun up to try, and have a 5.56 for practice now, because I am recoil sensitive, like most humans. I have a suppressor now. Next is putting 6mm bullets into deer, elk, bear, antelope, etc and seeing the results for myself. That's the point I think this thread is at.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Seem we didn't encourage the new guy to learn more about it before trying it, not our fault is it!

Dude, you are just spewing out nonsense now. If you think that Rokslide does not encourage people to LEARN, they you are sadly mistaken. I enjoy following this thread for the legitimate information contained within, hence why you are now Ignored from my feed.

 

[Don Fischer]

Be honest: have you even read what is being talked about on the 223 thread? I see you posted to it, but have you real all the conversation? If not, you don’t have much room to talk about what is or isn’t being said here.

Also, no one is suggesting moving down to 22LR or similar for bear. That’s a red herring to prove a bad point.

People are talking about using lower-caliber centerfire cartridges with optimized bullets, demonstrating how they perform in gel media, then proving based on use in game.

Yes I have. I have said a number of time's that I think the small 22 can do the job but I never encourage someone else to try it unless I'm pretty sure who I'm talking to. Tis thread doesn't seem good to me. Mostly people that want to pound their chest about how good they are.

 

[Don Fischer]

Be honest: have you even read what is being talked about on the 223 thread? I see you posted to it, but have you real all the conversation? If not, you don’t have much room to talk about what is or isn’t being said here.

Also, no one is suggesting moving down to 22LR or similar for bear. That’s a red herring to prove a bad point.

People are talking about using lower-caliber centerfire cartridges with optimized bullets, demonstrating how they perform in gel media, then proving based on use in game.

Yes I have. I have said a number of time's that I think the small 22 can do the job but I never encourage someone else to try it unless I'm pretty sure who I'm talking to.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Yes I have. I have said a number of time's that I think the small 22 can do the job but I never encourage someone else to try it unless I'm pretty sure who I'm talking to. Tis thread doesn't seem good to me. Mostly people that want to pound their chest about how good they are.

I'm not sure what you're going for here - but start your own thread to battle with the masses please. This is not the place.

 

[Don Fischer]

MAKE IT EASY FOR YOU ALL. I'LL JUST LEAVE THE SITE!

 

[LCV]

MAKE IT EASY FOR YOU ALL. I'LL JUST LEAVE THE SITE!

Appreciate it

 

[atmat]

Yes I have.

You’ve read all 400 pages in the 3 weeks you’ve been here?

MAKE IT EASY FOR YOU ALL. I'LL JUST LEAVE THE SITE!

No one is asking you to leave, though you’re welcome to do as you please. But it’s not great tact to join a forum and immediately start arguing with people.

 

[Big_wals]

You no idea who might be reading this. The new guy goes ahead and tries it and fails, it's no body's fault but his own. Seem we didn't encourage the new guy to learn more about it before trying it, not our fault is it!

This point has already been addressed, but you have obviously not spent much time on rokslide if you think people here are not encouraging new guys to learn all they can!

Guy that doesn't shoot much and knows nothing about bullet placement could go out and get him a 22 CF to shoot his deer with and fail miserably. Not because the cartridge couldn't do it but the shooter had no idea how to do it.

If someone quote “knows nothing about bullet placement”, and cant even place a 223 round in the front half of a deer, there’s not much hope with a bigger round either. If you know of such a newbie, send em to rokslide! We’ll encourage him to learn.

 

[Thegman]

This point has already been addressed, but you have obviously not spent much time on rokslide if you think people here are not encouraging new guys to learn all they can!




If someone quote “knows nothing about bullet placement”, and cant even place a 223 round in the front half of a deer, there’s not much hope with a bigger round either. If you know of such a newbie, send em to rokslide! We’ll encourage him to learn.

Exactly, a guy that knows nothing about bullet placement is likely to fail miserably with whatever cartridge he chooses to use; it has absolutely nothing to do with using a 223.

OTOH, if someone knows something about a cartridge that allows success with no knowledge of bullet placement, please let me know. My hunting success will increase dramatically.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

You going to adopt me so I can get a next of kin exemption? If so, i'm in!

He'll instantly become the most handsome member of your family too. Look at that hair!!!

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

MAKE IT EASY FOR YOU ALL. I'LL JUST LEAVE THE SITE!

It's okay to disagree on hunting topics. That's what this forum is for. I'd recommend sticking around and learning instead of tucking tail and burying your head in the sand. Nobody is "attacking you" and written words come off however somebody wants to interpret them most the time on the internet. Relax and learn.

 

[eric1115]

Speaking of noise.......I'll just take the advice of a hunter who knows 1000 times more about it than anybody here does, and has the experience to back it up. Unless I have the same amount of experience or more, then I'll defer to a real expert on this subject, and that would be Phil Shoemaker. He killed a charging grizz with a 9mm once, but that doesn't mean he chooses to carry it every day or recommend it.

As I rec'd before, if you have more specific questions, ask him. instead of a bunch of internet warriors who've never hunted them or even seen one for that matter.

I have an analogy to express the counterargument to this.

I'm a carpenter. CDX plywood sheathing and tyvek or similar water resistant barrier (house wrap) has been a standard accepted building envelope for decades. We know it works.

If I want to try a new system (ZIP sheathing that has a waterproof membrane pre-applied to the sheets, with liquid applied sealant on the joints for this example), I'm taking a huge risk if the system doesn't work as advertised. Failure of this component of the building envelope would be catastrophic.

I'll build 20 houses with Tyvek, unwilling to risk catastrophic failure. The guys at JLC or Fine Homebuilding magazine might build 5 little sheds with 5 different weatherproofing methods, side by side, monitor moisture levels for a year in all different weather conditions, and put their results in an article.

You are getting ready to build a house, and run across that article. You ask me, and I say that I've always used Tyvek, and am not gonna start using that ZIP stuff because I know what works. I have vastly more real world building experience than those internet warriors at the industry journal that have never built a real house.

Just because I have something that does work, that I trust over something I haven't tried, does not make me an informed source of information on whether or not the newer product works or not (spoiler alert - it does. Better waterproofing, much better air sealing. Better window/door integration into the building envelope)

I'm the expert that's killed/guided a bunch of grizzlies, always recommended something that's worked well for me, but that absolutely does not make me an authority on the effectiveness or lack thereof for something I've never tried.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Step 1: Feed all 10,000 videos of Ron Spomer on Youtube into a generative AI language model
Step 2: Deepfake him saying .223 is good for big game hunting with the right bullets
Step 3: Watch older hunters' opinions change as they now have permission from an older authority figure to use smaller cartridges and it's not a young whippersnapper saying it

 

[atmat]

Step 1: Feed all 10,000 videos of Ron Spomer on Youtube into a generative AI language model
Step 2: Deepfake him saying .223 is good for big game hunting with the right bullets
Step 3: Watch older hunters' opinions change as they now have permission from an older authority figure to use smaller cartridges and it's not a young whippersnapper saying it

Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit.

Probably involves buying stock in companies who sell hair ties for our manbuns or skateboards that we do tricks with as we pass in front of their lawns.

 

[JGRaider]

Step 1: Feed all 10,000 videos of Ron Spomer on Youtube into a generative AI language model
Step 2: Deepfake him saying .223 is good for big game hunting with the right bullets
Step 3: Watch older hunters' opinions change as they now have permission from an older authority figure to use smaller cartridges and it's not a young whippersnapper saying it

Spomer is a doofus IMO.

 

[atmat]

Spomer is a doofus IMO.

You thinking this really surprises me.

 

[JGRaider]

You thinking this really surprises me.

How so?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Spomer is a doofus IMO.

But his hats are SO COOL!