What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[fwafwow]

It's fascinating though. We've got a great mix of people who are holding on to what they know and ones who have gone to doing stuff that I'd have thought was absolutely insane 3 years ago and totally flipping everything i thought i knew about rifles on its head. It's cool to read the insite from people who passed through the phases that I'm in right now a decade ago (I'm getting the biggest gun I'll ever need and shooting everything with it). I've been a part of lots of bad experiences over the years with small rifles and regular soft point hunting bullets.

Thanks for a constructive post. I will try to follow suit.

My conversion has been recent. When I first saw the 223 thread, I thought it was some sort of joke or troll post and I just skipped over it. But it continued to get traction. I read the thread from start to finish (then it was "only" 96 pages), and I made my first post in it. That was just over a year ago.

I don't hold it against anyone who doesn't believe the thinking, as I was also that guy. I still have my 25-06, 270 and 30-06. And while I really like two of the rifles (Coopers, which shoot amazing), I am seriously thinking of selling them, and the ammo I stockpiled during Covid. Nothing against any of those cartridges, but I'm struggling to think of why I keep them, especially now that I have a 6.5CM. I think the two '06's are just taking up space, and capital.

If I had never taken the time to read the 223 thread, I would probably be in the same boat as others who also dislike the book without having read it. We can all fall victim to cognitive bias, so maybe one approach is to just try it out. Borrow someone's 223 or 6.5 and hunt with some of these touted rounds. I know that mentioning this forum and thread to my hunting buddies went no where (they won't read a forum) - until I killed a deer and showed them the tiny brass case in comparison to theirs. Then my buddy asked me about it, and I think he's read the 223 thread because he said "you have really got me thinking about that little old 223!"

 

[TaperPin]

just everyone be nice, hate to see a good thread get locked.

I told my Dad--74 years old-- about this thread last night and I then actually had to calm him down! (he likes the big guns--.338, 300 mag, 7 mag)

He did ask something that I might have missed discussed: What about the big bears? are these being included in the deer/elk/moose argument?

Let your dad know that I’ll try to squeeze in the hard angled away shots that deeper penetrating bullets are better at. . Elmer Keith would have been laughed at if he shot at the base of the tail with a 223 as an elk was about to run over the ridge, but he put the kabosh on many elk at odd angles with his 338 and 300.

 

[roosiebull]

Based off the threads on the slide, absolutely not as long as you use the correct bullets.

I dont even have a .223 and I'm starting to get components for it. I can't wait to try this out myself.

I sold my only 223 when the 223 thread was in its infancy, about the time I got rid of it, I needed a 223

It worked out because my last 223 was an AR and when I replaced it, I got a tikka, and for the purpose, I’m glad to have the tikka

It all worked out, but I was buying components and ammo well before I got the rifle. I will say, it’s the most enjoyable rifle I’ve shot, and I assume all of my rifle critters will end up in the 223 thread for the foreseeable future, as long as people keep their 22creeds and 6um’s to themselves… I don’t want to see it! I’m content

I will be turning my 308 into a 6creed, but it will be for my daughter, and she wants it pink, so I probably won’t pack it much

My wife will have the only fire breather in the household (6.5creed)

Next step is suppress everything starting with the 6 creed for the kid

 

[prm]

I still like .338 bullets and their audible impact and visible game reaction. At least for the ranges I tend to shoot.

Now you all go get off my lawn!

 

[Lou270]

What old school cartridges were the soft points coming from that didn’t penetrate?

I am picturing a 30-30.

Do the bigger soft point bullets expand faster than smaller closed tip or plastic tip bullets?

30-06, 280 Ross, 250 Savage, 22 Savage Hi-Power to name a few. Actually, the 22 Savage Hi-Power is a very good parallel to this discussion with a 70gr bullet around 27-2800 fps. Was even used on tigers in it’s day!

Lou

 

[TaperPin]

This thread is what I imagine a debate between Ron Spomer and Gavin from Ultimate Reloader would sound like if someone said "show him the results"..

Ron made me laugh when said he was at the range and some guys were figuring their dope and he simply pulled out his rifle and Bang Bang, smacking the plates.

 

[Thegman]

To the question of the thread title...

IMO, it's pretty simple: Because guys tried it, found certain combos worked really well and started providing a ton of evidence of the same. There are a lot of advantages to shooting smaller cartridges, so if they work really well for killing stuff, why wouldn't one use them?

I wouldn't have even built my latest 223, let alone use it for the hunting I have, without having come across the 223 for ....pretty much everything...thread here.

OTOH, I know plenty of people that are like the outfitter examples mentioned. No matter how much evidence to the contrary they see, their 300UM is still the minimum appropriate rifle...but they're also not the type of people to be on sites like this, looking for information, as they already "know" everything anyway...

 

[Choupique]

Were you lining up a shot on a bobcat with your 338

Kinda. I didn't really commit because I wasn't worried about it and I knew it was going to be tough. Had it been a big buck cruising through with a second to shoot in the same spot I would have probably made the shot but I would've paid a price for it.

With my 6.5 I would have just shot him with the rifle halfway planted on my bicep. I'm not doing that with the .338

 

[Choupique]

My line of thinking was that you needed horsepower and and well built bullet for good deep straight penetration on big game.

The whole reason I got a .338 was exactly what was said earlier, I wanted to be able to shoot an elk up the ass and know the bullet was going to make it to the good stuff and preferably still exit. I drive across the country to elk hunt, spent lots of money, lots of vacation, lots of wife tolerance to do it. If I see the elk I want I want to be able to kill him. I'd use a .50 if I could tote it and shoot it. When I finally go griz hunting, or maybe God willing buffalo hunting, I'll just use the same rifle. I want to be able to shoot any game anywhere I might be with the one rifle I got.

Now yall are telling me you'd take the hard angled shot on a big bull elk with a .223 every single time and it'd work every single time. Yall gotta understand that for an ol dumb coonass that's a tough pill to swallow. Here I am with this big howitzer that you're now explaining to me I don't need for anything and I'm spending all this money on ammo and enduring all this recoil and shooting worse for no reason.

I'm an engineer and I like knowing the truth. This whole fiasco is a prime opportunity for an ol Mythbusters quote that explains my stance on this perfectly: "I reject your reality and substitute my own"

 

[InteriorAKPopsicle]

I am not the most knowledgeable but I think that there is alot of validity too it.
I fell trap to the opposite previously. When I first moved to Alaska I was told buy a lot of people that I had to get a Magnum Cartridge if I was going to live in Alaska. At the time where I lived I was only looking at shooting Sitka Black Tail. As I've gained knowledge and experience - you definitely do not need a Magnum Cartridge. The most common calibers in remote Alaska are .243, .270 and .30-06. They kill more moose and caribou and bear than people realize.
I had an option of a rifles a couple years ago and went with a 280AI to get the over 3000 fps with near magnum performance in a fun cartridge that didn't smack as hard as a Magnum.
I think it is more important to have a gun you can shoot regularly to get better and more proficient so you can know your rifle and its performance better than it is to have a big bore. Now saying that I still want to get a Magnum for certain situations. I want a big bore for Coastal Brown Bear and for Bison (If I'm ever drawn).

 

[KenLee]

Yea, the point is everyone shoots better with lower recoil and muzzle blast. Idk how anyone could refute that unless they are non-human. I know that I take extra time to get right behind my .338 before taking a shot than I do with smaller rifles. 100% to do with knowing that the cannon will bite me if I don't. I missed a bobcat last season because I couldn't get square behind the rifle and didn't even shoot. Non-issue with basically anything else.

Whether or not recoil "bothers" you is absolutely 100% subjective but whether or not you'll shoot better with less recoil is non-debatable. Even more so at the extreme ends of the spectrum.

I shoot coyotes fairly regularly with my 45-70...cause I love playing with it.

 

[Alex Genereux]

Anyone know of any 6.5 creedmoor tmk factory ammo?

 

[mt terry d]

My line of thinking was that you needed horsepower and and well built bullet for good deep straight penetration on big game.

The whole reason I got a .338 was exactly what was said earlier, I wanted to be able to shoot an elk up the ass and know the bullet was going to make it to the good stuff and preferably still exit. I drive across the country to elk hunt, spent lots of money, lots of vacation, lots of wife tolerance to do it. If I see the elk I want I want to be able to kill him. I'd use a .50 if I could tote it and shoot it. When I finally go griz hunting, or maybe God willing buffalo hunting, I'll just use the same rifle. I want to be able to shoot any game anywhere I might be with the one rifle I got.

Now yall are telling me you'd take the hard angled shot on a big bull elk with a .223 every single time and it'd work every single time. Yall gotta understand that for an ol dumb coonass that's a tough pill to swallow. Here I am with this big howitzer that you're now explaining to me I don't need for anything and I'm spending all this money on ammo and enduring all this recoil and shooting worse for no reason.

I'm an engineer and I like knowing the truth. This whole fiasco is a prime opportunity for an ol Mythbusters quote that explains my stance on this perfectly: "I reject your reality and substitute my own"

I think feeling the need to drop something right now regardless of angle/meat damage and distance( to one's personal known and repeatable capability) is a legitimate reason for shooting bigger IF one is proficient with it ; which the average Joe Hunter is not ( such as myself). And when you're strictly limited on time/resources/opportunity I get it.

I think most who choose to shoot the RokSlide Special for elk/moose/bear ( such as myself) will not have that same mindset and will opt for more optimum conditions.

Some may have more experience and have found it to be sufficient even under poor conditions. That I don't know.

 

[wind gypsy]

just everyone be nice, hate to see a good thread get locked.

I told my Dad--74 years old-- about this thread last night and I then actually had to calm him down! (he likes the big guns--.338, 300 mag, 7 mag)

He did ask something that I might have missed discussed: What about the big bears? are these being included in the deer/elk/moose argument?

Interesting consideration. I'll let the something like a few out of every 100,000 hunters in the US that hunt brown bear on a given year pontificate on that. Seems like guys who've shot inland griz haven't hesitated to use 6.5s but understand that's not quite "big bears" to many.

I don't think a little AR loaded up with 77 TMKs would be the least comfortable option but not sure it'd be first.

 

[Choupique]

shoot coyotes fairly regularly with my 45-70...cause I love playing with it.

I shoot literally everything legal to shoot with my .338

Deer, pigs, yotes, bobcat (we only get one a year ) wild dogs, targets, plates, cans, nutria. I love shooting it. Easily my favorite rifle I've ever owned. It's like a death ray. I'm also fairly young and very stupid so maybe that'll change one day. The barrier to me trying a .223 is that I like using my .338 so much.

 

[wyosam]

Please see the moose scapula and humerus pics from a few pages back. This is a mythical non-issue.

In a quartering to shot, the scapula isn’t the issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Thegman]

I am not the most knowledgeable but I think that there is alot of validity too it.
I fell trap to the opposite previously. When I first moved to Alaska I was told buy a lot of people that I had to get a Magnum Cartridge if I was going to live in Alaska. At the time where I lived I was only looking at shooting Sitka Black Tail. As I've gained knowledge and experience - you definitely do not need a Magnum Cartridge. The most common calibers in remote Alaska are .243, .270 and .30-06. They kill more moose and caribou and bear than people realize.
I had an option of a rifles a couple years ago and went with a 280AI to get the over 3000 fps with near magnum performance in a fun cartridge that didn't smack as hard as a Magnum.
I think it is more important to have a gun you can shoot regularly to get better and more proficient so you can know your rifle and its performance better than it is to have a big bore. Now saying that I still want to get a Magnum for certain situations. I want a big bore for Coastal Brown Bear and for Bison (If I'm ever drawn).

I had the same experience. Guys told me I needed a 300WM for moose hunting, which I went out and bought. A few years later I wanted a much lighter rifle and went to a 308. It killed everything I shot just as well as the 300WM, even though it wasn't supposed to. I've never looked back at needing any sort of magnum rifle for anything in AK.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Speaking of coastal Brown ..
what will using a Fusion 200 grain 338 Fed give me over a 108 ELD-M ?

I’m fully on board with using smaller caliber and have been primarily using a 6.5 CM for a decade now. I just need to wrap my head around wether there is still a place, or not, for a much heavier bullet at close range, (Sub 200 yds) albeit starting off at 500 fps less. Primary objective not to hunt B Bears, but for defense.

 

[wyosam]

The 6um is curious in this conversation. Given the rest of the conversation, why wouldn’t the answer be 6dasher and burn half the powder instead of adding recoil and expense for 300fps?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fwafwow]

Anyone know of any 6.5 creedmoor tmk factory ammo?