What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[mt100gr.]

I want to see a 223 thread for grizzlies.
And the backup shooter needs to carry a .223 as well.
Premium bullets of course.

....they're just flesh, blood and guts in a leather pouch too!!

But having just dealt with one that decided he wanted my deer more than I did, I do understand the mental hurdle of squaring up to one with a .223.

 

[roosiebull]

No disagreement there. Tall tales, traditions, and folklore often stand the test of time - because people have a "professional" title like "outfitter" so they must know a lot about terminal ballistics. I don't hunt with outfitters and I make a point to educate myself and ask questions to avoid that group think trap.

Have you read the entire .223 thread? 6mm thread? 6.5mm thread? Honest questions - it is a lot of screen time...

How many "elk outfitters" do you think would even get past the title of the .223 thread??

The info there/here is an opportunity to be better and know more!! Enjoy.

I think a lot of guides/outfitters want to feel like they already know everything, so completely changing their mindset is likely way too big of a step for most

It seems like people are mostly interested in other people thinking they know stuff than actually learning

 

[roosiebull]

As long as this discussion has gone along, surely Sierra and other ammo companies have become aware of it. It seems strange to me Sierra hasn't done their own testing and evaluation and come out with a recommendation. Honestly, a .22 bullet proven and backed to reliably take most big game animals on earth would be in the top three developments in the history of firearm projectiles, surpassed only by the invention of the bullet and when they stopped being round.

Sierra or any other company who made a similar bullet could well be sitting on a financial goldmine, not to mention the prestige of a huge breakthrough, yet not a single ammo company has embraced the idea. Any idea as to why?

Not sure if you have noticed, but they already can’t keep up with the tmk, they don’t need to change anything… it’s not just sitting around not getting sold… almost all tmk’s are hard to find in stock

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

The only disadvantage I see to smaller rounds is having to pass on certain shots. For example, you're on your last day of a hard hunt. You're in the timber and spot a bull staring at you from 250 yards. Quartering to, all you can see is his shoulder. In three seconds he is going to dive into the canyon behind him never to be seen again.

Please see the moose scapula and humerus pics from a few pages back. This is a mythical non-issue.

 

[Wyo_hntr]

As long as this discussion has gone along, surely Sierra and other ammo companies have become aware of it. It seems strange to me Sierra hasn't done their own testing and evaluation and come out with a recommendation. Honestly, a .22 bullet proven and backed to reliably take most big game animals on earth would be in the top three developments in the history of firearm projectiles, surpassed only by the invention of the bullet and when they stopped being round.

Sierra or any other company who made a similar bullet could well be sitting on a financial goldmine, not to mention the prestige of a huge breakthrough, yet not a single ammo company has embraced the idea. Any idea as to why?

They know exactly what their bullets do in tissue. In fact, off the record, I would bet they would admit they designed it specifically to perform the way it does in tissue.

Just a hunch though.

 

[Squincher]

I dont care what the caliber is.
I stopped a while again considering recoil and killing efficacy based on a headstamp.
I use a recoil calculator. And I havent shoot non suppressed in well over a year.

An 8.2 lb 223 bare muzzle at less then 5lbs is stupid easy to shoot.
an 8.2 lbs 6 creed bare muzzle is less then 10 lbs and while not as easy as the 223 its still very nice.

Felt recoil is also a pretty subjective thing.

I killed elk and deer in earlier times with .300 and .338 WM's before I came to my senses. These days I wonder if .30-06 and .308 are even necessary. The advent of the CM and PRC cartridges might drive my personal threshold even lower.

 

[RMM]

@Formidilosus Out of curiosity, what do the recoil numbers look like for the 6UM?

 

[Choupique]

off the record, I would bet they would admit they designed it specifically to perform the way it does in tissue.

This has been my suspicion from the jump.

 

[Squincher]

Not sure if you have noticed, but they already can’t keep up with the tmk, they don’t need to change anything… it’s not just sitting around not getting sold… almost all tmk’s are hard to find in stock

They know exactly what their bullets do in tissue. In fact, off the record, I would bet they would admit they designed it specifically to perform the way it does in tissue.

Just a hunch though.

Why don't they come out and make it public? Surely, they aren't adverse to an exponential increase in sales and profit. Hell, they could probably just make that one bullet and do record levels of business.

 

[Choupique]

You can't sell hunting bullets to the military.

 

[Reburn]

@Formidilosus Out of curiosity, what do the recoil numbers look like for the 6UM?

Recoil Input Data Charge Weight: 66.0 gr Muzzle Velocity: 3250.0 ft/s Firearm Weight: 8.8 lb Bullet Weight: 115.0 gr Output Data Recoil Velocity: 11.1 ft/s Recoil Energy: 16.9 ft•lbs Recoil Impulse: 3.0 lb•s

01-Dec-23 07:28, JBM/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi

Its a bit punchy.
I havent ordered one #1 fireform brass #2 I cant shoot good enough far enough to out do my 6mm creed.

 

[Squincher]

You can't sell hunting bullets to the military.

But you can sell them to every hunter on earth.

 

[Reburn]

You can't sell hunting bullets to the military.

Or law enforcement.

 

[Choupique]

These days I wonder if .30-06 and .308 are even necessary

Based off the threads on the slide, absolutely not as long as you use the correct bullets.

I dont even have a .223 and I'm starting to get components for it. I can't wait to try this out myself.

 

[mt100gr.]

Why don't they come out and make it public? Surely, they aren't adverse to an exponential increase in sales and profit. Hell, they could probably just make that one bullet and do record levels of business.

It was designed for "hunting" and tissue damage but they can't come right out and say it....for global legal reasons....wink,wink....please tell me that you're catching on...

 

[ARK_Ginger]

You pee and poop most of it out. If it is metal, you poop all of it out.

Lead is considered unsafe in drinking water at levels of 15 ppb (parts per billion), toxicity in blood starts above 0.35 mg/L (depending on what you want to consider toxic effects and the age of the person being measured,). In adults blood lead levels above 0.7 mg/L can cause acute toxicity and the potential effects include encephalopathy, coma, and death. An adult has about 5L of blood, if we call it 6L for a large adult and go for a the typical range were the worst symptoms start of 0.8 mg/L, that is 0.074 grains of lead in the blood is enough to potential kill a large adult. Consumed lead metal is bioavailable in humans, though surface area will play more into this than the mass ingested.

Soluble tungsten (such as WO4) is likely safe at levels below 2.28 mg/L in drinking water, soluble tungsten can cause nephrotoxicity at exposure levels of 125 mg/kg/d (a 220 lb man would have to consume 4.4 ounces of soluble tungsten per day). However, non-soluble tungsten (tungsten metal) is not bioavailable and not toxic based on current evidence as it is eliminated in the stool. Prolonged exposure to soluble tungsten may increase risk of heart attacks and strokes, but beyond potential nephrotoxicity there are not acute syndromes associated with it. No toxic effects have been observed from tungsten metal and it does not appear to be bioavailable.

The two are not comparable beyond the fact that they are both metals.

I realize this is a side conversation happening, but are you saying the lead used it bullets is bioavalible? The last bit of research I did on this was a bit sparse in actual data. It seemed that there were only a few groups of hunters that had elivated lead levels in their blood from eating lead shot rabbit slow cooked with wine/vinegar.

 

[Squincher]

Or law enforcement.

Au contraire, my duty rifle is loaded with issued Federal 55 gr. bonded soft points.

 

[RMM]

Recoil Input Data Charge Weight: 66.0 gr Muzzle Velocity: 3250.0 ft/s Firearm Weight: 8.8 lb Bullet Weight: 115.0 gr Output Data Recoil Velocity: 11.1 ft/s Recoil Energy: 16.9 ft•lbs Recoil Impulse: 3.0 lb•s

01-Dec-23 07:28, JBM/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi

Its a bit punchy.
I havent ordered one #1 fireform brass #2 I cant shoot good enough far enough to out do my 6mm creed.

Appreciate it. I'm in the same boat. I have no interest in fireforming brass.

Numbers really aren't that bad, especially if you factor in the use of a brake or suppressor.

 

[Choupique]

But you can sell them to every hunter on earth.

Oh no you absolutely could not. Rokslide represents a very small segment of hunters and it'll be a cold day in hell before the majority leaves their .300 at home and totes a small bore to the elk camp. Hell I've read it all, understand it, and I'm still shooting deer with a .338

The military and law enforcement are big customers. They pay their bills on time, the repeat orders, and the orders are generally huge. If I made bullets for a living I'd do the exact same thing. The hunters are going to do what the hunters do regardless.

 

[Wyo_hntr]

Why don't they come out and make it public? Surely, they aren't adverse to an exponential increase in sales and profit. Hell, they could probably just make that one bullet and do record levels of business.

I don't know. I can't speak for the ammunition companies, perhaps legal/contractual requirements or commercial viability of their hunting lines, i dont know. But if people would pay less attention to the name and more attention to how it performs, the point is moot.