What caliber (not cartridge) is best for short barreled rifles when shooting heavy bullets?

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Can I ask someone who knows this stuff well about 7mm-08 specifically? Getting one currently at 20” cut and threaded for suppressor. Have asked for 18” from gunsmith, but would 16” make sense if it would always be suppressed and I’m planning to shoot bullets in the 139/140gn size? I don’t currently hand load but have an option to work one up, and it would probably be a 160gn TMK. Also, it’s a 1:9.5” twist. Thx

I have an 18" Encore barrel in 7-08. I shoot it suppressed with a Harvester EVO. With Starline brass, Varget, and a 120 grain Nosler BT, I am getting around 2725 fps. For the 139 grain SST, I am at 2675.
Not sure the 9.5 twist will stabilize the 160s at that slow of a speed. There are twist calculators that can tell you, or you could just shoot them and see.
 

Alaska92

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Outside of the really big boomers, it seems there would be an ideal intersection of powder burn rate, bore vs powder charge, and barrel length?

Seems like somebody oughta be able to math this out. I.e. stuff that has a bore/capacity ratio of X and best performance with powder Y will do best in barrel length Z.
You’re on to something.
 
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I guess I'd disagree with many of the assumptions in the OP. In the same case, smaller caliper bullets use slower burning powder not faster, contrary to what OP states. Smaller caliper bullets also rely more on velocity for energy.

There's a reason why the short barrel optimized intermediate rifle cartridge is .30 cal (.300 blackout) vs 22 caliper (5.56). You are looking for larger caliper bullets, not smaller.
 
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To run heavy for caliber bullets, you would need to run slower burn rate powders to get to a velocity that would keep a 190+ grain bullet to 1800 fps at 440 yards. Nosler shows a max load of 2000 MR getting 2625 fps in a 24" barrel take 200 fps off that for the 8" barrel loss and you are at 2425 which is not much above the minimum requirement to make 1800 fps at 440 yards. The 308 Winchester might not be the right cartridge for the 308 caliber bullets in a short barrel. There may be some powder that would make it work.

Jay
The .308 works just fine in a short barrel and, while there is overlap in powders, generally uses faster (not slower) burning powders than the 6.5/6mm creedmoore and 243 Winchester.

The reason the .223 uses faster burning powder than the .308 is the smaller case, not the smaller caliper as you claim. For instance, the similar case .300 blackout can be loaded with H110 which is way too fast to load .223.

You also appear confounded between larger 'caliper' and heavy for caliper bullet weight. Some people may (or may not) load heavier bullets per caliper with slower burning powder, but this is a different issue entirely.
 
OP
The Guide

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You also appear confounded between larger 'caliper' and heavy for caliper bullet weight. Some people may (or may not) load heavier bullets per caliper with slower burning powder, but this is a different issue entirely.
The title of the thread is literally "What caliber (not cartridge) is best for short barreled rifles when shooting heavy bullets?" and I'm discussing heavy for caliber bullets in short barrel rifles.

Calipers are a tool for measurement. Caliber in reference to barrels and bullets describe bullet size and barrel groove diameter.

The 300 BO would never get a 190 grain standard design .308 caliber bullet to a speed that would open effectively. It would not be considered as a .308 caliber cartridge to use a heavy for caliber bullet for hunting at supersonic speeds.

I'm not sure you actually read or comprehend what was posted so I disagree with your assessment as well.

Jay
 

E.Shell

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In Maryland rifle counties, a rifle used to hunt deer must deliver 1,200 ft.lb. at the muzzle. How heavy does a bullet have to be at subsonic velocities to deliver this?
 

z987k

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In Maryland rifle counties, a rifle used to hunt deer must deliver 1,200 ft.lb. at the muzzle. How heavy does a bullet have to be at subsonic velocities to deliver this?
About 490gr. Speed of sound is temperature and pressure dependent, but assuming 1100fps and going for a mv of 1050 to keep it subsonic through any velocity variations.
 
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Mojave

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300 WSM would be my first choice in a short barreled rifle. I know a smith that has built himself several of them, he says it's 30-06 power in an 18 inch barrel with a can. He uses his own barrel shroud model. FBT stocks in Austria.
 
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The title of the thread is literally "What caliber (not cartridge) is best for short barreled rifles when shooting heavy bullets?" and I'm discussing heavy for caliber bullets in short barrel rifles.

Calipers are a tool for measurement. Caliber in reference to barrels and bullets describe bullet size and barrel groove diameter.

The 300 BO would never get a 190 grain standard design .308 caliber bullet to a speed that would open effectively. It would not be considered as a .308 caliber cartridge to use a heavy for caliber bullet for hunting at supersonic speeds.

I'm not sure you actually read or comprehend what was posted so I disagree with your assessment as well.

Jay
Again, your stated belief that larger caliper bullets use slower burning powders is incorrect.

.300 blackout was given as an example of the fact that larger caliper bullets indeed use faster burning powders. This is not related to specific concerns regarding expansion velocity.

Slower burning powders are generally used with smaller diameter bullets in a same case and/or in larger cases with the same diameter bullet.
 
OP
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Again, your stated belief that larger caliper bullets use slower burning powders is incorrect.

.300 blackout was given as an example of the fact that larger caliper bullets indeed use faster burning powders. This is not related to specific concerns regarding expansion velocity.

Slower burning powders are generally used with smaller diameter bullets in a same case and/or in larger cases with the same diameter bullet.
When in the realm of heavy for caliber bullets, you can use faster burning powders?

Jay
 
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Im not sure caliber matters all that much. I have a few things in mind. What distance do you want to shoot? What grain bullet? How long of a barrel? It will take some iterations and you will find something that meets your needs. A big consideration for me is barrel life. I typically go with 20". To me that's a sweet spot with most of my cartridges. A good one could be a 6.5 PRC you could probably get creedmoor velocities out of an 18 or 20 inch barrel. I will say I think if you want to consistently take shots out to where you need that velocity you likely need a tripod, I'm not dragging a tripod around, I'm not a dentist so I have to carry all my gear. Going prone is not an option most of the time as the grass is often 2+ feet tall or if youre in snow and it's not deep it could work. Now id just say go with a 20" creed. If you hunt mountains a 20" creed will kill out past 600 yards. I think there is a bit of gluttony with speed. I would send the highest BC bullet at the slowest speed to meet your desired range.
 

abbrown

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Hey now, let’s not create any more dentist hate than what already exists 😉. No one has ever carried my gear, or my animals, other than a bud helping with a quarter or two.
 
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Hey now, let’s not create any more dentist hate than what already exists 😉. No one has ever carried my gear, or my animals, other than a bud helping with a quarter or two.
I'm not an anti dentite. I just don't have my own practice and the income stream to afford the equipment or the live stock to move my gear. Lots of people talk about long range shooting and talking about calibers that are capable of taking animals out past 600 but what is the need of you do not have the setup. You'll enjoy the below YouTube clip:
Seinfeld - Anti-Dentite
 

Bluumoon

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I'm not an anti dentite. I just don't have my own practice and the income stream to afford the equipment or the live stock to move my gear. Lots of people talk about long range shooting and talking about calibers that are capable of taking animals out past 600 but what is the need of you do not have the setup. You'll enjoy the below YouTube clip:
Seinfeld - Anti-Dentite
My dentist (@abbrown) packs my quarters and shoots his elk closer to the truck. Win win.
 
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