What are your thoughts on the Kung Flu?

[MattB]

In a way, I think we are saying the same thing. It's just my opinion that the numbers shouldnt be reported the way they are because of the grey area with the complications of pre existing conditions. Actually not that the numbers shouldnt be reported, but I think there should be more stated when reported. Simply like the things we are debating now. The lack of acknowledgment on some issues and the over acknowledgment of others I think is creating alot of confusion, for all of us.

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk

Not calling out at all, but there are other posters on this site who seem to use the notion of over-reporting to make a political commentary about the COViD shutdown in an attempt to diminish the impact of the disease. Questioning the methodology of how deaths are categorized is one thing, but I find the notion of arguing the cause of death of someone who contracted COVID-19 and had diabetes (or other underlying condition) to be distasteful. For all we know that individual may have lived 20, 30, 50 more happy and relatively healthy years had they not been killed by the virus.

 

[HuntHarder]

Anyone ever wonder if this has been around for years and we are just now testing for it? I would be willing to bet my left testicle that Pnemonia deaths will be down substantially in the US this year.

Note* I have lost this testicle atleast 7 times prior to this bet.

 

[Billinsd]

Honeslty, I wish this thread would get closed down. Its run its course.

We are on course for 3,000.

 

[HuntHarder]

Not calling out at all, but there are other posters on this site who seem to use the notion of over-reporting to make a political commentary about the COViD shutdown in an attempt to diminish the impact of the disease. Questioning the methodology of how deaths are categorized is one thing, but I find the notion of arguing the cause of death of someone who contracted COVID-19 and had diabetes (or other underlying condition) to be distasteful. For all we know that individual may have lived 20, 30, 50 more happy and relatively healthy years had they not been killed by the virus.

I do not disagree with you, but could you also say that those same people could have died from the flu or pneumonia this year? Tough to say huh?

 

[Billinsd]

It is certainly evolving daily and I know that everyone in the medical community is working their hardest to figure out the best treatments practices and hopefully a vaccine.

Until then, we hunker down and keep the numbers as low as possible.

I respectfully disagree. I believe we keep the numbers low enough, so the system doesn't get overwhelmed and people "don't" die, because they can't get treatment. Keeping the numbers down as low as possible means keeping people locked down and businesses closed too long to me, which is worse than the virus is with healthcare not overwhelmed. Bill

 

[SgtTanner]

An estimated additional 180 - 195 deaths per day occurring at home in New York City due to COVID-19 are not being counted in the official figures. "Early on in this crisis we were able to swab people who died at home, and thus got a coronavirus reading. But those days are long gone. We simply don't have the testing capacity for the large numbers dying at home. Now only those few who had a test confirmation *before* dying are marked as victims of coronavirus on their death certificate. This almost certainly means we are undercounting the total number of victims of this pandemic," said Mark Levine, Chair of New York City Council health committee [source].

(your source link took me to some twitter feed that didn’t immediately seem relevant, and Twitter is a questionable source at best.)

That might be valid, that people are dying at home and are unable to be tested. Care to address the issues like the newborn who died of COVID, referenced in the video in post 2934? Before my father got his lung transplant, his idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis was real bad. If he’d have caught COVID, and passed, I would say it was 99% IPF and 1% COVID. Perhaps our respective examples even out? At any rate, I agree that our death stats are probably way better than our case stats. My wife and I have wondered whether it has already been thru our house without us knowing.

 

[Billinsd]

The studies out there aren’t even that valid.

Which studies? How do you know, are you a physician or researcher?

No need to stock pile hydroxychloroquine when patients with chronic illnesses such as RA and lupus need them to be available.. patients can’t get their NEEDED medications because of people stockpiling.

What happens if people with RA and lupus don't take hydrox? Is it life threatening?

There is a difference of being TREATED for Covid in a hospital with this medication then taking it for prevention...stockpiling.

Are the studies for hospital and prevention invalid?

STAY HOME and following cdc guidelines to not contract it in the first place is the best course of action right now.

Prevention is generally the best course of action, especially in this situation. Thanks Bill

 

[WannabeHunter]

What happens if people with RA and lupus don't take hydrox? Is it life threatening?

Lupus: Yes, can be life threatening depending on which organ system is involved.
RA: Not usually life threatening, but RA can affect major organ systems as well. In those cases, yes.

Also keep in mind, these are diseases we KNOW plaquenil is life saving or at a minimum life changing for these diseases states. Are we ready to deny them treatment in the hope (not even fully anecdotally accepted) it treats COVID? I'm not saying yes or no, because I don't think we're there yet, but it's something to think about.

 

[MattB]

I do not disagree with you, but could you also say that those same people could have died from the flu or pneumonia this year? Tough to say huh?

Not sure I fully understand the question, but presuming they were accurately tested for COVID-19 I would say that is not likely.

 

[Dustin the wind]

Guys, there are many many different types of treatments for lupus. Two main ones are Aspirin and Tylenol. NSAIDS like ibuprofen, Corticosteroids which is a whole other class of treatments and many others.

The general use of Hydroxychloroquine is generally used in conjunction with other meds for lupus to boost their abilities. A lot of times it’s also used for mild forms of lupus. Hydroxychloroquine IS NOT the only treatment for lupus, far from it.

Do some research before talking out of your butthole.

 

[aggieland]

Everyone working at the ER I am employed at that is obese or has prexisting conditions has started the malaria drug. Our lead Dr made it available to them.

 

[WannabeHunter]

Guys, there are many many different types of treatments for lupus. Two main ones are Aspirin and Tylenol. NSAIDS like ibuprofen, Corticosteroids which is a whole other class of treatments and many others.

The general use of Hydroxychloroquine is generally used in conjunction with other meds for lupus to boost their abilities. A lot of times it’s also used for mild forms of lupus. Hydroxychloroquine IS NOT the only treatment for lupus, far from it.

Do some research before talking out of your butthole.

I agree, but you also have to take into account that Lupus treatments are highly customized to patient response. So there is a good chance that a particular regimen is effective as a whole. You can't really just start switching these patients around and get the same results.

 

[MattB]

(your source link took me to some twitter feed that didn’t immediately seem relevant, and Twitter is a questionable source at best.)

That might be valid, that people are dying at home and are unable to be tested. Care to address the issues like the newborn who died of COVID, referenced in the video in post 2934? Before my father got his lung transplant, his idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis was real bad. If he’d have caught COVID, and passed, I would say it was 99% IPF and 1% COVID. Perhaps our respective examples even out? At any rate, I agree that our death stats are probably way better than our case stats. My wife and I have wondered whether it has already been thru our house without us knowing.

The source for that tweet is Mark Levine, Chair of New York City Council health committee - whose perspective I will accept over those of people posting on this forum. The quote was also referenced in the New York Times article in the event you believe that is a more suitable source.

Like I referenced in my prior post, there are certainly edge cases which are debatable. But the notion that the exception should justify the rule falls flat, and is frankly ironic coming from someone who was asking for data in order to be willing to entertain counterpoints.

 

[Dustin the wind]

I agree, but you also have to take into account that Lupus treatments are highly customized to patient response. So there is a good chance that a particular regimen is effective as a whole. You can't really just start switching these patients around and get the same results.

It would be more likely to cause hiccups for RA patients and not all of them are on chloroquin. As bad as it would be to have a shortage for them. It’s to help with their inflammation. They would maybe have more discomfort but they will not die without it.

 

[SgtTanner]

The source for that tweet is Mark Levine, Chair of New York City Council health committee - whose perspective I will accept over those of people posting on this forum. The quote was also referenced in the New York Times article in the event you believe that is a more suitable source.

Like I referenced in my prior post, there are certainly edge cases which are debatable. But the notion that the exception should justify the rule falls flat, and is frankly ironic coming from someone who was asking for data in order to be willing to entertain counterpoints.

I’d probably trust the word of the NYC Health Committee, though I don’t trust NYT, so if they’re citing NYT, then maybe not so much. Without seeing the data you’re talking about, I will assume NYT was citing the Health Committee, rather than the other way around.

I’m not saying that the exception should justify the rule, I just hadn’t seen any super reputable data that says deaths are under reported. Can we agree that there are probably both cases not reported as COVID when they should be, as well as cases that are 99% or more something other than COVID getting counted as COVID?

I still think our stats on deaths are better than our stats on cases, but there’s probably error on both sides.

An underlying point in this issue is that it’s very hard to come by data that isn’t biased in some way. For example, if the people on the Health Committee are not friendly to Trump, I would imagine they might want this to look worse than it is, because they don’t want it to look like Trump is fixing anything. And don’t even get me started on the news outlets, including Fox. And no, I’m not a trump lover. I’m a data lover. Politics has no place in reporting the truth, especially during a crisis like this.

 

[MattB]

I’d probably trust the word of the NYC Health Committee, though I don’t trust NYT, so if they’re citing NYT, then maybe not so much. Without seeing the data you’re talking about, I will assume NYT was citing the Health Committee, rather than the other way around.

I’m not saying that the exception should justify the rule, I just hadn’t seen any super reputable data that says deaths are under reported. Can we agree that there are probably both cases not reported as COVID when they should be, as well as cases that are 99% or more something other than COVID getting counted as COVID?

I still think our stats on deaths are better than our stats on cases, but there’s probably error on both sides.

An underlying point in this issue is that it’s very hard to come by data that isn’t biased in some way. For example, if the people on the Health Committee are not friendly to Trump, I would imagine they might want this to look worse than it is, because they don’t want it to look like Trump is fixing anything. And don’t even get me started on the news outlets, including Fox. And no, I’m not a trump lover. I’m a data lover. Politics has no place in reporting the truth, especially during a crisis like this.

If you are going to spend time picky the fly **** out of the pepper to try to determine what you can and cannot trust and make it political, I can't help you man.

 

[ODB]

I bet cases are underreported, but many outlets are saying deaths are overreported, and I believe that to be true.

Yes, I will try to find it, but I saw a report that Deaths are to be counted if they are “presumed” to be CV+. That is absolute bullshit and as “anti-science” as you can get.

 

[SgtTanner]

If you are going to spend time picky the fly **** out of the pepper to try to determine what you can and cannot trust and make it political, I can't help you man.

If you’re going to believe everything you read, I can’t help you.

I asked for some data on the possibility that deaths are under reported, as I hadn’t heard that (I’m not on Twitter, and apparently that’s where the data resides). Once presented with the data, I accepted that it’s possible people die at home and are never tested and never counted. I still also believe there are those edge cases that get counted as COVID that are actually something else. Like watching both Fox and MSNBC, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

I am specifically not interested in the politics. Read back thru my posts. I’ve been consistent that politics has no place kn I don’t trust fox and also don’t trust MSNBC. I don’t trust the Ds or the Rs. I’m not affiliated with a political party. I would like facts and data, and I can draw my own conclusions.

 

[ewade07]

Guys, there are many many different types of treatments for lupus. Two main ones are Aspirin and Tylenol. NSAIDS like ibuprofen, Corticosteroids which is a whole other class of treatments and many others.

The general use of Hydroxychloroquine is generally used in conjunction with other meds for lupus to boost their abilities. A lot of times it’s also used for mild forms of lupus. Hydroxychloroquine IS NOT the only treatment for lupus, far from it.

Do some research before talking out of your butthole.

Well. My GF is a physician at a Rheumatalogy clinic so I think I’ll take her word over yours on this matter any day in this millennia.

 

[ewade07]

It would be more likely to cause hiccups for RA patients and not all of them are on chloroquin. As bad as it would be to have a shortage for them. It’s to help with their inflammation. They would maybe have more discomfort but they will not die without it.

Are you a rheumatologist?