What are your thoughts on the Kung Flu?

[SgtTanner]

I think there's plenty of proof out there. The US is somewhere around 20k deaths. Which is quite possibly underreported, due to lack of testing, lag time, etc.

I bet cases are underreported, but many outlets are saying deaths are overreported, and I believe that to be true.

 

[durangobrad]

There is almost no nuance to these deaths. For example, how many deaths that would have occurred due to seasonal flus are now being subsumed under covid? In other words, we are acting as though none of the deaths would have happened within the normal flu numbers. That can’t be true.

Is CV killing people? Absolutely. Is it the only thing that would have killed X people this season? Not on your life.

Also, this obsession with ventilators is getting out of hand. Doctors are reporting that pts on ventilators have a higher mortality than normal to the point they are questioning the efficacy of them. Doubt me? Read here: https://apnews.com/8ccd325c2be9bf454c2128dcb7bd616d


Consider this, if we are treating Cv as purely a respiratory issue when it in fact includes other factors, for example heart issues ; https://khn.org/news/mysterious-heart-damage-not-just-lung-troubles-befalling-covid-19-patients/

Then we are missing some major things with this.

Consider this as well, if CV can cause tiny clots and damage heart muscles, this could help explain why some blacks are getting hammered by this virus - sickle cell anemia is rare but present in the black community. This could be a complicating factor. But I’m no doctor.

I fear we are treating an issue that needs a scalpel with a sledge hammer.

It is certainly evolving daily and I know that everyone in the medical community is working their hardest to figure out the best treatments practices and hopefully a vaccine.

Until then, we hunker down and keep the numbers as low as possible.

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[Trevor73402]

It is certainly evolving daily and I know that everyone in the medical community is working their hardest to figure out the best treatments practices and hopefully a vaccine.

Until then, we hunker down and keep the numbers as low as possible.

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But hold on a sec.......what about this first paragraph in OBD's post that you just completely ignored, then added your generic blanket statement? Then again telling everyone to "hunker down" and continue giving up daily life based on directions from people who are revising and changing the facts daily.

"There is almost no nuance to these deaths. For example, how many deaths that would have occurred due to seasonal flus are now being subsumed under covid? In other words, we are acting as though none of the deaths would have happened within the normal flu numbers. That can’t be true.

Is CV killing people? Absolutely. Is it the only thing that would have killed X people this season? Not on your life."

 

[durangobrad]

But hold on a sec.......what about this first paragraph in OBD's post that you just completely ignored, then added your generic blanket statement? Then again telling everyone to "hunker down" and continue giving up daily life based on directions from people who are revising and changing the facts daily.

"There is almost no nuance to these deaths. For example, how many deaths that would have occurred due to seasonal flus are now being subsumed under covid? In other words, we are acting as though none of the deaths would have happened within the normal flu numbers. That can’t be true.

Is CV killing people? Absolutely. Is it the only thing that would have killed X people this season? Not on your life."

I don't know the answer to that and again I don't think anyone does.

I believe the number of deaths is probably underreported.

I also believe the number right now would probably be 3-5x had we not taken the measures that we did.

What I mean by hunker down, is keep doing what you've been doing the past couple of weeks, because it's without a doubt working, to some extent.
And in many cases it's mandatory under some sort of governor's order. Ours in Colorado was extended to April 26 and after that who knows?


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[jmez]

South Dakota is pretty rural. So far a 5 % hospitalization rate. No where near s shortage of beds, equipment or people. And we have a hotspot in Sioux Falls. 290 workers from a single packing plant.

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[SgtTanner]

I believe the number of deaths is probably underreported.

I also believe the number right now would probably be 3-5x had we not taken the measures that we did.

Care to share your data that suggests the deaths are under reported?

I totally agree that things would be much worse if we hadn't taken actions to limit spread of the virus.

 

[durangobrad]

How could there be data for something that's not reported?

Our testing has been an absolute failure. You can research that easily. So to assume that the numbers aren't higher than reported is pretty simple.

Of course you have the other side of that fox news conspiracy spreading that it's over reported...

 

[Jauwater]

After hearing / watching White House Covid response coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx tell us that they are counting infected patients who die with Covid 19, as being Covid 19 deaths, regardless of underlying issues of current health at time of infection, makes it hard believe to me that the amount of deaths are under reported. They say some nearly 8 thousand people die a day in the US, large percentage being from disease or illness. That means there are thousands of people on their death bed daily in the US, ready to die from something they've been battling with for who knows how long. Along could come many illnesses to push these individuals past the brink. But, these people catch Covid, pass on, and their counted as Covid deaths. I understand it could be difficult to break it all down to find out each person's worse underlying issue that caused the death, but to just count it, and then report these numbers seems like inflation to me. Also, could an individual have Covid and Influenza at the same time? Covid, and pneumonia at the same time? I'm assuming so, their all killers.

And this isn't being insensitive. I care dearly for people. I know when I have a loved one pass I want the death certificate to be accurate in the death description. And what was reported from Dr. Birx, I dare say some individuals aren't getting the accuracy they deserve.

I like to end my posts with "and that's my opinion". Because it seems to end my discussion for further debate. And I appreciate that


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[jmez]

Deaths are the firmest number we have at this point. Because of the testing protocols # infected is likely way off on the low side. If those numbers were accurate your death % would go down.

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[Jauwater]

Deaths are the firmest number we have at this point. Because of the testing protocols # infected is likely way off on the low side. If those numbers were accurate your death % would go down.

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I believe this to be true, that it is our firmest number. Inflated, in my opinion, but definitely our firmest.

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[Dustin the wind]

I would like to remind everyone that death certificates are fudged very often. Many opiate ODs are listed as some sort of heart failure. I personally had 2 uncles and one friend that happened to. I doubt there is even an ICD-9 code for covid at this point.

 

[durangobrad]

I believe this to be true, that it is our firmest number. Inflated, in my opinion, but definitely our firmest.

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And we are number one at it in the world.

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[Dustin the wind]

If you are a critical thinker, please give this md a listen, at least the first 6 or 7 min. Gives you an idea of the kind of fabricated shenanigans going on in some cases.

 

[MattB]

Care to share your data that suggests the deaths are under reported?

I totally agree that things would be much worse if we hadn't taken actions to limit spread of the virus.

An estimated additional 180 - 195 deaths per day occurring at home in New York City due to COVID-19 are not being counted in the official figures. "Early on in this crisis we were able to swab people who died at home, and thus got a coronavirus reading. But those days are long gone. We simply don't have the testing capacity for the large numbers dying at home. Now only those few who had a test confirmation *before* dying are marked as victims of coronavirus on their death certificate. This almost certainly means we are undercounting the total number of victims of this pandemic," said Mark Levine, Chair of New York City Council health committee [source].

 

[jmez]

And we are number one at it in the world.

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Raw numbers yes. Based on population we aren't even in the game.

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[MattB]

After hearing / watching White House Covid response coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx tell us that they are counting infected patients who die with Covid 19, as being Covid 19 deaths, regardless of underlying issues of current health at time of infection, makes it hard believe to me that the amount of deaths are under reported. They say some nearly 8 thousand people die a day in the US, large percentage being from disease or illness. That means there are thousands of people on their death bed daily in the US, ready to die from something they've been battling with for who knows how long. Along could come many illnesses to push these individuals past the brink. But, these people catch Covid, pass on, and their counted as Covid deaths. I understand it could be difficult to break it all down to find out each person's worse underlying issue that caused the death, but to just count it, and then report these numbers seems like inflation to me. Also, could an individual have Covid and Influenza at the same time? Covid, and pneumonia at the same time? I'm assuming so, their all killers.

And this isn't being insensitive. I care dearly for people. I know when I have a loved one pass I want the death certificate to be accurate in the death description. And what was reported from Dr. Birx, I dare say some individuals aren't getting the accuracy they deserve.

I like to end my posts with "and that's my opinion". Because it seems to end my discussion for further debate. And I appreciate that


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There is likely some truth to what you are saying on the margin, but IMO one cannot legitimately hold the opinion that, in the case of people die who and had COVID-19 as well as diabetes, obesity, or heart disease, we cannot really make a determination as to the cause of death. On balance, It is not as though one of those conditions is likely to have killed those people in the next 2 weeks. Those conditions are often survivable for decades.

 

[ManyBullets]

Here's the plan:

“"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."
- Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberger meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992.

 

[Jauwater]

There is likely some truth to what you are saying on the margin, but IMO one cannot legitimately hold the opinion that, in the case of people die who and had COVID-19 as well as diabetes, obesity, or heart disease, we cannot really make a determination as to the cause of death. On balance, It is not as though one of those conditions is likely to have killed those people in the next 2 weeks. Those conditions are often survivable for decades.

In a way, I think we are saying the same thing. It's just my opinion that the numbers shouldnt be reported the way they are because of the grey area with the complications of pre existing conditions. Actually not that the numbers shouldnt be reported, but I think there should be more stated when reported. Simply like the things we are debating now. The lack of acknowledgment on some issues and the over acknowledgment of others I think is creating alot of confusion, for all of us.

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[ewade07]

My Mom, a lifelong Democrat and retired 35 yr ICU RN, already has reached out to her Doc to get some of that drug (I’m not gonna bother to try and spell it) so it’s available in case her or my Dad start getting symptoms. She has lots of friends at UW Medical which has been at the forefront in developing treatments based off their genome research so she’s confident this is a critical drug to help treat Corvid-19.

Trying to slow down the spread and improving the treatment once contracted are separate issues though with both being critical to put this in the past ASAP so we can all get back to normal.

The studies out there aren’t even that valid. No need to stock pile hydroxychloroquine when patients with chronic illnesses such as RA and lupus need them to be available.. patients can’t get their NEEDED medications because of people stockpiling. There is a difference of being TREATED for Covid in a hospital with this medication then taking it for prevention... STAY HOME and following cdc guidelines to not contract it in the first place is the best course of action right now.

 

[jmez]

Depends on the pre existing condition no doubt. The first Covid death in South Dakota also had stage 4 lung cancer.

It should also be consistent with how deaths are coded for other diseases such as influenza, common cold etc. I don't know how that is done.

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