What are your thoughts on the Kung Flu?

[Texasbuckeye]

Death rate is low, and that’s why this thing is so deadly, it will pass to many and some die but few do, so it keeps spreading. Problem is very lethal diseases kill the host too quickly. Semi lethal diseases pass and hosts transmit while some die. That’s what we are dealing with.

 

[Mike7]

That is common with influenza as well (i.e. higher death rates in 3rd world countries), but the fear has been that without a treatment or vaccine and with an overwhelmed medical system, then we could see similar high death rates.

We are lucky that this was a "Chinese disease", because they had the misfortune of having to figure out what was even going on, and thankfully also figured out some things that might help.

 

[Trevor73402]

Do you just love to post the worst shit possible with this? Do not forget about the 39 year old lady found dead by her boyfriend, the kid today in La county, the idiots in AZ that ate the hydroxychloroquine when they did not have the virus and the husband died. ( they blame trump and his speech), Italy's dogshit healthcare system and aging residents. I mean lets get all the terrible shit out there so we can move on. The reality of this whole situation is that 90% of the US will have mild to flu like symptoms.

If you can not tell, I am so done with the Doom and Gloom bullshit from everyone.
EDIT* I am done with this thread, my Muck boots are no longer high enough.

Even if you’ve only read thru 3-4 pages of this thread, you can pretty much figure out what Trial is here for and what mind set he keeps. He is one of the several I was referring to in the last post I made. I’ve found it to be much better just hitting refresh in the classifieds most of the day.

 

[MtnOyster]

This is some scary stuff, anyone of us that has treated ARDS in either an emergency situation or hospital setting can relate this. Stark contrast the general perception of this disease and should shed some light why this so labor intensive from a provider standpoint.

A Medical Worker Describes Terrifying Lung Failure From COVID-19 — Even in His Young Patients

“It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy shit, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube.”

www.propublica.org

Trial....I’m pretty sure things are gonna get tuff in your neck of the woods especially in the next few days, your hospitals are already complaining of getting over crowded and it’s not rolling good there yet, with a request of 30k respirators and nowhere near that many to use for at least one to two weeks and that’s if the car/truck manufacturers can get em built and out the door.

With a city population over 8 million if most haven’t taken it too seriously until now I suspect problems are gonna climb.

 

[ODB]

I think the rest of the country will be Trumps argument, as bad as I hate to say it I do think the guy (NY GOV) is showing some hellacious leadership, AAAND........their population is something to think about but.....our government will not sacrifice 49 other states that could potentially end up like NY.

I‘m not too sure how much longer we’re gonna be worrying about the curve......
My reason= CHLOROQUINE and Z PACKS

The results of using the two together have been bulletproof so far against covid-19 and when Trumps advisors tell him they think they have enough to treat most Americans I think then is when you’ll see him say open businesses back up.

Until now IMO I think that’s what has been our whole panic......new disease and not knowing what to fight it with, but now we at least have a start in a good direction to battle this virus with this medicine....we just have to get a bunch of it to our doctors now.

I told my wife last night that if the chloroquine and z-pack cocktail works out, Trump will be hailed as a genius, and you will not be able to hold people from getting back to work. The results are anecdotal at this point, but every drugs result is anecdotal until you have a large, controlled study.

I’m also curious if other anti-malarials such as Malarone +z-pack might work. I was prescribed both of these by my infectious disease doc. Didn’t end up using the z-pack, but it’s very common to prescribe both for Africa.


As far as pandemic preparedness, it’s hard to compare a geographically huge country like ours that has its population in cities from 10 million to 10 and expect each of them will be able to respond on the same way to a pandemic. People are freaking about about the number of hospital beds available, but if you always planned for the max potential, you would literally have thousands of hospitals around the country sitting empty for decades just waiting for something bad to happen. It justso happens that this virus is a respiratory one. What would have happened if it presented more as dysentery or vomiting and people wound up on feed tubes? Do we now have a strategic reserve of THOSE type of products? My guess is a resounding no. These are the unknown unknowns that Donald Rumsfeld used to talk about. Things we don’t know that we don’t know...until they happen.

 

[BuzzH]

Not sure why anyone thinks that Trump will be a hero if the z-pak and chloroquine work.

For starters it wasn't his idea, he's just a guy that's hoping for the best, like we all are, that something works.

Secondly, color me skeptical that it will work, mainly because antibiotics (z-paks) don't work on virus's.

My guess is that it works about as well as taking a teaspoon of sugar...

 

[Kevin Dill]

As far as pandemic preparedness, it’s hard to compare a geographically huge country like ours that has its population in cities from 10 million to 10 and expect each of them will be able to respond on the same way to a pandemic. People are freaking about about the number of hospital beds available, but if you always planned for the max potential, you would literally have thousands of hospitals around the country sitting empty for decades just waiting for something bad to happen. It justso happens that this virus is a respiratory one. What would have happened if it presented more as dysentery or vomiting and people wound up on feed tubes? Do we now have a strategic reserve of THOSE type of products? My guess is a resounding no. These are the unknown unknowns that Donald Rumsfeld used to talk about. Things we don’t know that we don’t know...until they happen.

100% agreement. I'll expand on this to say there's simply no way to have complete physical readiness (talking about supplies here) for everything that can happen. What I think we need is basically 2 things: 1) Critical supplies in agreed-upon quantities large enough to meet anticipated initial needs, while production is ramping up. 2) National contingency planning which puts production and delivery of critical testing materials, drugs and hospital supplies into a fast track without delay. In other words: We don't need a huge supply of hospital beds. We do need a plan to generate thousands of additional beds in days/weeks instead of months. Same with many other things useful to combating a pandemic.

For sure, the media's attention to this situation is driving up fear and anxiety levels beyond where they need to be. To be fair, health care workers at all levels are telling it like it is where they work....and it's pretty dire in many areas. The media has an obligation to keep us informed....whether it's NBC, FOX, or BBC....without hype or bias. We all know there is simply NO completely objective national news source these days, so we're left to sort it out for ourselves.

Finally: Our nurses, doctors, technicians, therapists and every health care worker are the warriors trying to protect us and our lives. They are no less valuable than the military and should have the same degree of prioritized support from congress and the executive branch. They need the tools and supplies to fight this pandemic-war. We wouldn't send soldiers into battle without helmets, armor, protective gear, PLUS the tools required to identify the enemy and defeat it.

Thanks again to all of you who are dealing with this. I appreciate your work and the risks you assume each day....each shift. My wife is one of these warriors and I assure all of you she's got your back if you walk into her clinic.

 

[ODB]

Not sure why anyone thinks that Trump will be a hero if the z-pak and chloroquine work.

For starters it wasn't his idea, he's just a guy that's hoping for the best, like we all are, that something works.

Secondly, color me skeptical that it will work, mainly because antibiotics (z-paks) don't work on virus's.

My guess is that it works about as well as taking a teaspoon of sugar...

1) because that's the way politics works.

2) CV-19 in serious cases leads to pneumonia. Antibiotics can help prevent further complications from bacterial pneumonia. That's why some health systems like UVA are recommending at-risk folks get the pneumonia vaccine. There are two heads to this beast - the coctail purportedly works on two fronts. This is similar to HIV cocktails - one (or more) med attacks the actual virus, the anitbiotic (z-packs are used here) help prevent the resulting pneumonia that kills a lot of HIV patients.

3) I wouldn't be so cynical on whether it works or not. Given this is a novel virus, we need open minds when it comes to this stuff - even if you don't like Trump.

 

[elkhunter505]

Not sure why anyone thinks that Trump will be a hero if the z-pak and chloroquine work.

For starters it wasn't his idea, he's just a guy that's hoping for the best, like we all are, that something works.

Secondly, color me skeptical that it will work, mainly because antibiotics (z-paks) don't work on virus's.

My guess is that it works about as well as taking a teaspoon of sugar...

From what I have done the research on, it seemed like they were giving Z-Paks for the pneumonia that is being caused by the virus itself. Not to actually fight the virus. However, I could be mistaken in my research.

 

[elkhunter505]

Ahh ODB beat me to it haha

 

[GraveyardNRSE]

100% agreement. I'll expand on this to say there's simply no way to have complete physical readiness (talking about supplies here) for everything that can happen. What I think we need is basically 2 things: 1) Critical supplies in agreed-upon quantities large enough to meet anticipated initial needs, while production is ramping up. 2) National contingency planning which puts production and delivery of critical testing materials, drugs and hospital supplies into a fast track without delay. In other words: We don't need a huge supply of hospital beds. We do need a plan to generate thousands of additional beds in days/weeks instead of months. Same with many other things useful to combating a pandemic.

For sure, the media's attention to this situation is driving up fear and anxiety levels beyond where they need to be. To be fair, health care workers at all levels are telling it like it is where they work....and it's pretty dire in many areas. The media has an obligation to keep us informed....whether it's NBC, FOX, or BBC....without hype or bias. We all know there is simply NO completely objective national news source these days, so we're left to sort it out for ourselves.

Finally: Our nurses, doctors, technicians, therapists and every health care worker are the warriors trying to protect us and our lives. They are no less valuable than the military and should have the same degree of prioritized support from congress and the executive branch. They need the tools and supplies to fight this pandemic-war. We wouldn't send soldiers into battle without helmets, armor, protective gear, PLUS the tools required to identify the enemy and defeat it.

Thanks again to all of you who are dealing with this. I appreciate your work and the risks you assume each day....each shift. My wife is one of these warriors and I assure all of you she's got your back if you walk into her clinic.

Thanks Kevin, you always inject a dose of optimism whenever you write. Here in SD, we're running extremely low on masks. They are rationing out the masks. We're hopeful we can get more because we see more and more rule out covid patients daily.

 

[aggieland]

Study out of Oxford estimated 1 of 1000 pt will need hospitalization... 1/2 of the UK possibly already infected earlier..

Potentially Great News out of Oxford Epidemiology | TexAgs

Potentially Great News out of Oxford Epidemiology discussion on the TexAgs Politics forum.

texags.com

 

[BuzzH]

1) because that's the way politics works.

2) CV-19 in serious cases leads to pneumonia. Antibiotics can help prevent further complications from bacterial pneumonia. That's why some health systems like UVA are recommending at-risk folks get the pneumonia vaccine. There are two heads to this beast - the coctail purportedly works on two fronts. This is similar to HIV cocktails - one (or more) med attacks the actual virus, the anitbiotic (z-packs are used here) help prevent the resulting pneumonia that kills a lot of HIV patients.

3) I wouldn't be so cynical on whether it works or not. Given this is a novel virus, we need open minds when it comes to this stuff - even if you don't like Trump.

Has nothing to do with not liking Trump, I just happen to trust science.

I get it that perhaps a z-pak could help with a secondary bacterial pneumonia, but the z-pak isn't going to do jack shit to kill the virus. That's the science. I've had pneumonia 5 times over the years, they always prescribe antibiotics, but each time, its been with the caveat that it may, or may not work depending on if its viral or bacterial. Did they work? I don't know, recovery seemed to be pretty similar in all 5 cases for me.

There's no harm in throwing antibiotics at it either way, but, again, the science is pretty clear cut, they wont be killing off a virus with a z-pak.

I don't care if you like Trump and believe everything he says, Science is what it is....

 

[Dos Perros]

100% agreement. I'll expand on this to say there's simply no way to have complete physical readiness (talking about supplies here) for everything that can happen. What I think we need is basically 2 things: 1) Critical supplies in agreed-upon quantities large enough to meet anticipated initial needs, while production is ramping up. 2) National contingency planning which puts production and delivery of critical testing materials, drugs and hospital supplies into a fast track without delay. In other words: We don't need a huge supply of hospital beds. We do need a plan to generate thousands of additional beds in days/weeks instead of months. Same with many other things useful to combating a pandemic.

For sure, the media's attention to this situation is driving up fear and anxiety levels beyond where they need to be. To be fair, health care workers at all levels are telling it like it is where they work....and it's pretty dire in many areas. The media has an obligation to keep us informed....whether it's NBC, FOX, or BBC....without hype or bias. We all know there is simply NO completely objective national news source these days, so we're left to sort it out for ourselves.

Finally: Our nurses, doctors, technicians, therapists and every health care worker are the warriors trying to protect us and our lives. They are no less valuable than the military and should have the same degree of prioritized support from congress and the executive branch. They need the tools and supplies to fight this pandemic-war. We wouldn't send soldiers into battle without helmets, armor, protective gear, PLUS the tools required to identify the enemy and defeat it.

Thanks again to all of you who are dealing with this. I appreciate your work and the risks you assume each day....each shift. My wife is one of these warriors and I assure all of you she's got your back if you walk into her clinic.

We don’t yet know if the plans and preparation in place aren’t sufficient. No one has run out of beds yet. No one has run out of respirators yet. It’s all speculation at this point.

 

[ODB]

Has nothing to do with not liking Trump, I just happen to trust science.

I get it that perhaps a z-pak could help with a secondary bacterial pneumonia, but the z-pak isn't going to do jack shit to kill the virus. That's the science. I've had pneumonia 5 times over the years, they always prescribe antibiotics, but each time, its been with the caveat that it may, or may not work depending on if its viral or bacterial. Did they work? I don't know, recovery seemed to be pretty similar in all 5 cases for me.

There's no harm in throwing antibiotics at it either way, but, again, the science is pretty clear cut, they wont be killing off a virus with a z-pak.

I don't care if you like Trump and believe everything he says, Science is what it is....

Science is nothing - nothing - without exploration. What you call 'science' now, was a hair-brained idea or likely accidental discovery based on a 'what if?' Science merely quantifies
a theory that was born in the imagination.

So, if you want to consider the advice from infectious disease docs to prep with anti-biotics as 'throwing antibiotic' you are ignoring the learned science that says it helps.


Not sure why you are so cynical - sometimes blind adherence to science can blind one to new paths.

And for the record - I don't like trump - but believe what you will.

 

[elkhunter505]

Has nothing to do with not liking Trump, I just happen to trust science.

I get it that perhaps a z-pak could help with a secondary bacterial pneumonia, but the z-pak isn't going to do jack shit to kill the virus. That's the science. I've had pneumonia 5 times over the years, they always prescribe antibiotics, but each time, its been with the caveat that it may, or may not work depending on if its viral or bacterial. Did they work? I don't know, recovery seemed to be pretty similar in all 5 cases for me.

There's no harm in throwing antibiotics at it either way, but, again, the science is pretty clear cut, they wont be killing off a virus with a z-pak.

I don't care if you like Trump and believe everything he says, Science is what it is....

Problem is many epidemiologists believe we will be kicking ourselves for using antibiotics so frequently in the future as more strains of antibiotic resistant bacterium emerge. However, this is just speculation and I have 0 mountains to die on yet.

 

[MtnOyster]

Some info and success rates on some the drugs were using https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...DOI_IJAA.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0HsQ2ZPqkKryh7DPiX-mNl

 

[ODB]

Problem is many epidemiologists believe we will be kicking ourselves for using antibiotics so frequently in the future as more strains of antibiotic resistant bacterium emerge. However, this is just speculation and I have 0 mountains to die on yet.

This is already a problem. In this case, it’s quite targeted use, so think it’s warranted.

I still have my z pack from Africa. I opted to take a bovine colostrum product while I was there to fend off T/D. Worked well.

Of course it’s not FDA approved and is considered a “supplement “ versus a medicine (so not “science” based), but work it did...and I’ll use it again...

 

[menhaden_man]

Some interactive charts and such here. Who knows how good any of it is? Still interesting though.

COVID-19 Data Explorer

Explore global data on COVID-19.

ourworldindata.org

 

[ManyBullets]

I'm proactively using Tito's to kill anything in my system.