What 6mm for a trainer and a hunting rifle?

[wind gypsy]

You will learn more from a .223 than any other “trainer” rifle/round. IF you get off the bench and tripods and shoot it in field positions. OH and there is a giant thread about death with .223 on here.

And you can shoot decent factory ammo for the price of 6mm components and spend that load bench time denting primers instead!

 

[Formidilosus]

Any other 6’s I need to consider? Dasher, XC, ARC? Pros and cons?

If barrel life matters, I can not see why you would shoot anything but 6 ARC. People make way to big a deal about “brass”. In 6 ARC Hornady brass is just fine and you’re looking at 4,000’ish rounds of field barrel life.

 

[SDHNTR]

Guessing because it's got more oomph than a 223 and once you get above a 6mm in hunting weight rifle recoil makes things less fun to shoot a bunch.

This is correct.

 

[SDHNTR]

You will learn more from a .223 than any other “trainer” rifle/round. IF you get off the bench and tripods and shoot it in field positions. OH and there is a giant thread about death with .223 on here.

Yes, already do all that with my .223, it’s taken it’s fair share of yotes and wild pigs.

Part of the issue is when we go to the range my kid winds up with my .223 and I end up burning more powder than necessary with something else. So I want another similar rifle, yet a little bit different.

 

[Lemhi]

Usually just lurk here but thought I’d chime in. I own nearly all the 6mm’s. As others have mentioned the 6GT is the way to go, excellent barrel life, easy to find components and factory ammo. I’m running a 22” on my shorter GT, a mild load of varget pushes 110 a-tips @2860 with an SD of 3. Always 1/3-1/2” if I do my part and I’m supersonic to 1300.

I also don’t care for large mags and have a few custom builds that are ADL style. Get yourself some Hawkins hunter bottom metal, run the flush fitting 4-round mag in the field and have the option to run 5/10-round AICS pattern mags at the range or for practice.

 

[SDHNTR]

Usually just lurk here but thought I’d chime in. I own nearly all the 6mm’s. As others have mentioned the 6GT is the way to go, excellent barrel life, easy to find components and factory ammo. I’m running a 22” on my shorter GT, a mild load of varget pushes 110 a-tips @2860 with an SD of 3. Always 1/3-1/2” if I do my part and I’m supersonic to 1300.

I also don’t care for large mags and have a few custom builds that are ADL style. Get yourself some Hawkins hunter bottom metal, run the flush fitting 4-round mag in the field and have the option to run 5/10-round AICS pattern mags at the range or for practice.

Those specs excite me. The other thing that makes me lean to the GT is the ability to use the same powder (Varget for example) I already use in a few other cartridges.

I can learn to live with the Hawkins bottom metal but that damn rattle drives me nuts. Nothing on a firearm should rattle IMO, loaded or unloaded!

 

[Lemhi]

Slap a rubber band around the base of the mag or if you have a good local shop that has viton o-rings in different diameters and that rattle will be gone.

 

[ID_Matt]

If barrel life matters, I can not see why you would shoot anything but 6 ARC. People make way to big a deal about “brass”. In 6 ARC Hornady brass is just fine and you’re looking at 4,000’ish rounds of field barrel life.

If reloading only, what makes it better than dasher? I guess dasher is slightly bigger case so one could argue the barrel life being slightly less. Dasher has the advantage of being best suited for varget (somewhat available compared to H4895 or 8208 gold dust), alpha brass, and standard bolt face. Arc has factory ammo and maybe feeds better in a generic mag but requires a fairly unique bolt face

 

[Formidilosus]

If reloading only, what makes it better than dasher? I guess dasher is slightly bigger case so one could argue the barrel life being slightly less. Dasher has the advantage of being best suited for varget (somewhat available compared to H4895 or 8208 gold dust), alpha brass, and standard bolt face. Arc has factory ammo and maybe feeds better in a generic mag but requires a fairly unique bolt face

Nothing really except feeding. The 6 ARC will continue to be supported by Hornady, rifles will continue to be chambered in it, ammo will continue to be made for it. It’s a factory supported 6 BR.

People make way too much about the difference in cartridges- there are bunches that perform the same.

 

[TaperPin]

I get a kick out of the latest cartridge trends, but even the 6br/6dasher guys are shooting lower than max velocities in field competitions so they can follow impacts through the scope. If your rifle of choice can be modified to feed that case reliably it’s perfect for what you’re talking about.

Even a old beat up REM 700 .243 with pitted barrel and factory bedding that lived two decades behind a pickup seat until I bought it for $125 shot MOA 5 shot groups all day long with mild or max loads. For years it was my loaner deer rifle and go to for just burning powder. 100 gr. Nobler partitions seemed to kill everything by everyone that shot it. It’s not an elk gun, but it took a cow in wide open sage country - my friend said she made it almost a mile with a high lung shot so he’s not going to repeat that again. To this day it’s new owner is loaning it out to anyone and everyone and shooting the heck out of it - it’s probably taken 100 mule deer by now.

As cool as a custom gun is, I’d spend money on a used REM 700 and factory barrel if all you need is MOA accuracy. New take off barrels are less than $100 - burn one up until it stops grouping, fit another and repeat. Burning up a factory barrel doesnt make your gut hurt even a little.

Having said that, a custom match grade barrel does make a guy grin awfully big - just make sure to save the old barrel if it shoots good - it’s easy to unscrew the good barrel and burn up the factory barrel, or for use as a loaner.

 

[Juan_ID]

If reloading only, what makes it better than dasher? I guess dasher is slightly bigger case so one could argue the barrel life being slightly less. Dasher has the advantage of being best suited for varget (somewhat available compared to H4895 or 8208 gold dust), alpha brass, and standard bolt face. Arc has factory ammo and maybe feeds better in a generic mag but requires a fairly unique bolt face

It seems leverevolution and cfe223 are the go to’s for the arc, both of which are very available and much cheaper than about anything else out there. With 2 more major brass mfg’s jumping on the 6arc that won’t be an issue for anyone who needs gucci brass.

 

[wind gypsy]

It seems leverevolution and cfe223 are the go to’s for the arc, both of which are very available and much cheaper than about anything else out there. With 2 more major brass mfg’s jumping on the 6arc that won’t be an issue for anyone who needs gucci brass.

The idea of using leverevolution drops in a progressive is appealing.

 

[4090Sharps]

Personally, I would go with the 6 ARC for barrel life and brass that is likely to be available for a long time.

Starline just came out with brass, Hornady is producing brass again, and Peterson Cartridge is supposed to be producing it as well. If the 6 ARC doesn't survive for some reason, 6.5 Grendel brass is easily converted.

I received my first 500 pieces of 6 ARC brass from Starline last week, and am setting up a head for my Apex 10 so I can quickly load them up with CFE223.

I am very happy with my Savage 6arc. I loaded up some 108eldm with cfe223 from resized Grendel brass. They are shooting Moa at almost 2900fps.

Care to share your load data here or in a message?

 

[SDHNTR]

Got a pic of that o ring hack?

Slap a rubber band around the base of the mag or if you have a good local shop that has viton o-rings in different diameters and that rattle will be gone.

 

[280Ackley]

Personally, I would go with the 6 ARC for barrel life and brass that is likely to be available for a long time.

Starline just came out with brass, Hornady is producing brass again, and Peterson Cartridge is supposed to be producing it as well. If the 6 ARC doesn't survive for some reason, 6.5 Grendel brass is easily converted.

I received my first 500 pieces of 6 ARC brass from Starline last week, and am setting up a head for my Apex 10 so I can quickly load them up with CFE223.


Care to share your load data here or in a message?

30.5gr CFE233 108ELD-M 2.365 Fed primers

 

[Juan_ID]

The idea of using leverevolution drops in a progressive is appealing.

I have spoke with a guy that loads cfe on a progressive and gets real good es/sd’s

30.5gr CFE233 108ELD-M 2.365 Fed primers

How long of a barrel? I’d guess 24+ go be getting almost 2900 with the 108 and cfe.

 

[280Ackley]

22”. I haven’t ran that load through the chrono yet but my drops were confirmed out to 450 putting in 2850fps on my ballistic app.

 

[3sdad]

6x45. BHW barrel 22". 85 grain speers. 2850-2900 fps.

 

[packgoatguy]

If barrel life matters, I can not see why you would shoot anything but 6 ARC. People make way to big a deal about “brass”. In 6 ARC Hornady brass is just fine and you’re looking at 4,000’ish rounds of field barrel life.

Sorry to bring up an older thread here: in regards to the 6ARC, how would you rate the recoil in a very lightweight rifle like a howa carbon? How would it compare to the recoil in a similar weight setup (sub 5lb rifle) like a kimber 84m rebarreled to 22 Creedmoor, or 6mm Creedmoor? (Or, for a factory comparison, how would it compare to a sub 5lb 6.5creedmoor like a fieldcraft or mountain ascent in recoil?)

In a similar vein, how would you expect the recoil of the new 22ARC to compare (if put in a lightweight bolt action) to factory 223rem with the 77gr tmk (like Stand1armory stuff, I get 2900fps in a tikka 22inch, and 2750fps in a tikka cut to 16 inches). And that being said, all else being equal, how much more velocity would you expect from the 22ARC with a 77tmk vs a 223rem? For example, if 2750fps is possible with the 223rem 77tmk in a 16 inch bolt gun, is 2900fps realistic in a 22ARC with 77tmk bullets in a 16 inch bolt gun?

Would you still recommend the 22creed as the next best option to the 223rem, or is the 22ARC going to be a better compromise for those not intending to reach out beyond 500/600 yards, but wanting to reach beyond the 400/450 capabilities of the 223rem? (less velocity, but better barrel life, less recoil, and more ammo choices??) Or is the 6ARC or 6CM still a better all around option?

 

[Formidilosus]

Sorry to bring up an older thread here: in regards to the 6ARC, how would you rate the recoil in a very lightweight rifle like a howa carbon? How would it compare to the recoil in a similar weight setup (sub 5lb rifle) like a kimber 84m rebarreled to 22 Creedmoor, or 6mm Creedmoor? (Or, for a factory comparison, how would it compare to a sub 5lb 6.5creedmoor like a fieldcraft or mountain ascent in recoil?)

6 ARC recoil is much less. For a 6.5lb total weight rifle, just over 9 ft-lbs of recoil for a 105gr bullet and 6ARC, and 14 ft-lbs for the same in a 6 Creedmoor.

The 6ARC is extremely shootable.

In a similar vein, how would you expect the recoil of the new 22ARC to compare (if put in a lightweight bolt action) to factory 223rem with the 77gr tmk (like Stand1armory stuff, I get 2900fps in a tikka 22inch, and 2750fps in a tikka cut to 16 inches).

In 6.5lb rifle:

223= 5 ft-lbs of recoil
22ARC= 7 ft-lbs or recoil

And that being said, all else being equal, how much more velocity would you expect from the 22ARC with a 77tmk vs a 223rem? For example, if 2750fps is possible with the 223rem 77tmk in a 16 inch bolt gun, is 2900fps realistic in a 22ARC with 77tmk bullets in a 16 inch bolt gun?

Around 200-250fps advantage for the 22 ARC.

Would you still recommend the 22creed as the next best option to the 223rem, or is the 22ARC going to be a better compromise for those not intending to reach out beyond 500/600 yards, but wanting to reach beyond the 400/450 capabilities of the 223rem? (less velocity, but better barrel life, less recoil, and more ammo choices??) Or is the 6ARC or 6CM still a better all around option?

The 22 ARC is a great option for a bit better performance and longer terminal range than the 223, while having significantly better barrel life than the 22 Creed. For uses where most animals are taken at 600’ish or less yards, and someone wants to practice with the same rifle, the 22 ARC is a great option.