Weatherby Model 307 (“New” Action for Weatherby)

[Nomosendero]

First, I don’t hate anything. I have used Savages extensively. And I am not talking about a one off thing, I am speaking to using them right next to other rifles in typical mountain hunting weather and conditions, and seeing their consistent failures compared to others. The barrel nut is no longer the advantage it was with shouldered prefits available, and Savages have an objectively less reliable trigger, feeding, extraction and ejection than other common rifles.
When they were they only sub $700 rifle that would shoot decently they made a lot of sense. That’s not the case anymore.

“Accuracy” that is precision, is only one part of a rifle, and nearly every modern rifle shoots well from a Ruger American to a Blaser. Reliability and function matter as much for a field rifle, and that’s were Savages fail. Hunting from a deer stand where the rifle sees only a padded safe, to a padded case, to sitting on a rest, back to case and safe- maybe not. However, this is a western mountain hunting site, and when viewed from that lens Savages leave a lot to be desired.

One, is general function. They tend to show issues with extremely rough feeding, commonly have extraction and ejection problems, and bolt bind when rechambering quickly. That is just in a clean environment, their reliability in dusty, sandy, and icy environments just exasperates those issue. Their triggers also don’t do well in those same dusty/sandy/icy environments.


My experience from seeing dozens of Savages used is that when practicing and shooting in typical dusty mountain conditions for a week, that previously “perfect” functioning Savages will start having feed/function issues within a couple hours and less than a hundred rounds of shooting on the first day. By the start of the second day with some dust or snow/ice and 100’ish rounds most will no longer go through a full magazine or two without a malfunction. By the end of of day two nearly all will need to be broken down and detail cleaned to bring them back to working order.
Howa’s in the same conditions right beside the Savages will go about three days before having some feeding issues, Remington based actions are all over the map from not working at the start to triggers failing in a couple of days. Contrast that with Tikkas, Sako TRG’s, Blasers, and from what I’ve seen so far- Sauer 100’s, feeding and functioning correctly without fail for weeks/months of that same use.

Yes, to each his own Indeed!
I have a small sample size of 2, but I won't try another.
I bought a 300 WM Long range Hunter, it shot terrible.
I also owned a heavy barrel 22-250, medium accuracy at best. I do know a few people who own a Savage or 2 that shoot lights out, so theirs are not flukes in my view but when I have a bad experience with something more than once, I am done.
As others stated, they are ugly as a mud fence. Kinda like having a Wife that is ugly and can't cook if they can't shoot either. I got lucky on both counts with that one.
Ah well, different strokes.

 

[PNWGATOR]

I am not a guide, but I am around people who take shooting and hunting seriously, and lots of them measure their time hunting every year in months, not days. My annual ammo expenditure is measured in pallets, not boxes, and I can shoot to farther than any scope can adjust nearly from my front door.

No one I’m around is spending an hour each day wiping their guns down because they got some dirt on them, and no one cares about brands. I use what proves to work the best with the least amount of issues, and because of how much I see things get used, those differences are stark.




Please point out where I have written about credit to anyone, for anything? I do not consider the barrel nut, floating bolt, or accutrigger to be that noteworthy, as they are all comprises that have no real advantage.




You should reread what I wrote.





I come up with them through actual use. Lots, and lots of use. Again, months of snow and ice, months of dust, dirt, and sand. The worse the weather, the more I am out. Blue bird range days don’t do much for evaluations. That doesn’t mean that others don’t have experience. It just means that I can see the difference between gear pretty quick.


You have five decades of hunting the mountain west, ok- how many days a year? How many days a year with a Savage? What time of year and what are the usual weather conditions? How many rounds a year through a single Savage, and under what conditions are those rounds shot in?

This is not an argument from me- I’m actually asking so that I, or those reading can see what experience and usage each of us are coming from.






What have I listed that you believe isn’t objective and can’t be proven on demand?

I too am interested in answers to the questions.

 

[Dobermann]

So you mean a completely different rifle?

He means a Tikka,

 

[Newtosavage]

I am not a guide, but I am around people who take shooting and hunting seriously, and lots of them measure their time hunting every year in months, not days. My annual ammo expenditure is measured in pallets, not boxes, and I can shoot to farther than any scope can adjust nearly from my front door.

No one I’m around is spending an hour each day wiping their guns down because they got some dirt on them, and no one cares about brands. I use what proves to work the best with the least amount of issues, and because of how much I see things get used, those differences are stark.




Please point out where I have written about credit to anyone, for anything? I do not consider the barrel nut, floating bolt, or accutrigger to be that noteworthy, as they are all comprises that have no real advantage.




You should reread what I wrote.





I come up with them through actual use. Lots, and lots of use. Again, months of snow and ice, months of dust, dirt, and sand. The worse the weather, the more I am out. Blue bird range days don’t do much for evaluations. That doesn’t mean that others don’t have experience. It just means that I can see the difference between gear pretty quick.


You have five decades of hunting the mountain west, ok- how many days a year? How many days a year with a Savage? What time of year and what are the usual weather conditions? How many rounds a year through a single Savage, and under what conditions are those rounds shot in?

This is not an argument from me- I’m actually asking so that I, or those reading can see what experience and usage each of us are coming from.






What have I listed that you believe isn’t objective and can’t be proven on demand?

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest about whose experience is more valid. Point is, neither of us has enough experience to pass even the most generous statistical analysis, so it's just all personal experience/preference anyway. You have your preferences and seem to believe it's enough to make the absolute declarations you often make. Good for you. At the end of the day, we all should be taking out into the field what we have the most confidence in, whether that's because it has a proven track record or because we just like the tool so much we've used the crap out of it and know what it's capable of (or both).

We'll have to agree to disagree on how noteworthy the features are that Savage has developed over the past 60 years, and that now are found on almost every major manufacturer's rifles. You feel they are insignificant but Ruger, Remington, Mossberg and others apparently disagree.

Savage will never win any beauty contests, but for men and women who use tools, beauty is often in the eye of the toolholder, so to speak. I personally think it just burns a lot of folks how well Savage rifles shoot for the money, making it especially hard to justify a rifle that shoots no better but costs 3, 4 or 5+ times as much. Vanity is a tough vice to admit to for some.

Not saying that's your reason as I believe you when you say you don't have any brand loyalties. But for many, that is the reason. They wouldn't be seen dead with a Savage even if it does work as good or better than what they just dropped $2k on.

Getting back to the thread topic... If that new Weatherby action had a 3-position safety, a flush fitting DBM and took Savage threaded barrels, I'd probably buy one just to tinker with.

 

[Newtosavage]

He means a Tikka,

Yea but Tikkas are ugly.

 

[ndlawrence]

Why does it matter? Because Savage should be given credit for their innovations that have been copied by every other manufacturer. I admire companies that develop industry standard equipment. Those that just copy them, not so much. And yes, it is the barrel nut, floating bolt head and accutrigger. I'm not sure why you give the credit for those things to anyone else.

Maybe I have my head in the sand. Which features have been copied by EVERY manufacturer?

I’m trying to think.

Ruger uses an accutrigger style on the American rifles.

What other manufacturer uses a floating bolt head?

What other manufacturer uses a barrel nut?

All three of the features are design to counteract poor manufacturing. Accutrigger to be able to manufacture a trigger with crappy sear engagement without worrying about getting sued for ADs. Floating bolt head because action tolerances are not sufficient to allow proper mating on the bolt head. Barrel nuts so the don’t have to worry about headspacing…

 

[Newtosavage]

I too am interested in answers to the questions.

Which questions? Form made a bunch of casual accusations that sound like stock "It can't be that good if it's that inexpensive" accusations everyone likes to make about Savage rifles, whether or not they've ever spent much time with them.

Let's start here:
"And I am not talking about a one off thing, I am speaking to using them right next to other rifles in typical mountain hunting weather and conditions, and seeing their consistent failures compared to others. The barrel nut is no longer the advantage it was with shouldered prefits available, and Savages have an objectively less reliable trigger, feeding, extraction and ejection than other common rifles."

Consistent failures sounds like rumor mill trope. Certainly not my experience or that of many people I know who have used Savage rifles since the 60's. There is a forum called SavageShooters that is full of people who use, abuse, compete and tinker with Savages for decades, some are even smiths that exclusively work with Savage rifles. Not sure why all these people would invest so much time in a platform that consistently fails.

Then Form admits the barrel nut was an advantage even after saying it wasn't.

"Objectively less reliable trigger?" How is that "objective?" By what measure? The Accutrigger has been proven for over 2 decades now and has in fact become the industry standard with Mossberg, Ruger and yes even Remington copying it for their rifles. Again, not my experience whatsoever and I (and others) prefer the Accutrigger vs. single stage triggers. But then if you just use the stock trigger, you lose the opportunity to tell your friend you "run" a Trigger Tech or Timney or whatever. So there is that downside.

Feeding can be an issue with any major manufacturer's rifle. At least with Savage's DBM, it's easy to tweak the feed lips when needed to remedy the issue. I've never had a single Savage I couldn't easily get to feed 100% of the time with less than 5 min. and a common pair of pliers. To say Savages feed, eject or extract worse than "other common rifles" is nonsense. Key word being "common." If you want to compare them to higher end rifles, custom actions, etc. then sure. Any sub $1k that isn't a Tikka will give you issues if you work the bolt too slow or too fast or at an angle or whatever. Just randomly take a rifle off the rack, load the mag full and try to cycle through all the rounds without a hitch. I doubt anyone here would wager their next paycheck that every sub-$1k rifle besides Savage would complete this task perfectly. Please. We've all had feeding, ejection and extraction issues with Remingtons, Rugers, Howas, and yes, even Tikkas.

And then there's this comment that I simply disagree with and provided examples why: "There is no advantage to a bolt that isn’t locked closed when on safe..." If you want one less feature on your rifle for no particular reason, then it's on you to explain why a 2 position safety that doesn't allow you to lock the bolt up is an advantage.

 

[Newtosavage]

Maybe I have my head in the sand. Which features have been copied by EVERY manufacturer?

I’m trying to think.

Ruger uses an accutrigger style on the American rifles.

What other manufacturer uses a floating bolt head?

What other manufacturer uses a barrel nut?

All three of the features are design to counteract poor manufacturing. Accutrigger to be able to manufacture a trigger with crappy sear engagement without worrying about getting sued for ADs. Floating bolt head because action tolerances are not sufficient to allow proper mating on the bolt head. Barrel nuts so the don’t have to worry about headspacing…

Don't think I said "every."

Ruger and later Mossberg and Remington copied the Accutrigger design from Savage.

Ruger and Mossberg and later Remington copied the barrel nut design

Several custom manufacturers feature floating bolt heads in their $1k+ actions. Not sure why they would do this if it wasn't an advantage. Plus, if you're swapping barrels to one that's chambered to a cartridge with a different sized case head dimension, all you have to do is change out the bolt head rather that replace the whole bolt or have the bolt permanently altered.

For people who swap barrels themselves, the last two (barrel nut and floating bolt head) are huge, which is why most barrel manufacturers now offer prefits with barrel nuts and as I said above, action makers are offering floating bolt heads.

I haven't even mentioned the Accufit stocks, which in time other manufacturers will be forced to also copy.

 

[z987k]

For the record I would have preferred a shorter bolt throw instead of the 90 degree they went with but to be honest it's not a big deal in the scheme of things. After listening to Adam Weatherby they are going after new customers and keeping their other lines too. Smart move.

You know they are going to do it right and put out a good product something the competition doesn't do. The new Remington's sound good so far too. Fierce and Christensen better step up their game and have better quality control or they will lose customers.

That's a good point. No reports on QC yet, but if somehow I could only own a weatherby or christiansen, I'm going to get the weatherby.

 

[Newtosavage]

That's a good point. No reports on QC yet, but if somehow I could only own a weatherby or christiansen, I'm going to get the weatherby.

After buying and selling two CA's, I would also go for the Weatherby in this case, although they appear to be nearly the exact same action.

 

[z987k]

After buying and selling two CA's, I would also go for the Weatherby in this case, although they appear to be nearly the exact same action.

It's not the action, it's the QC.

 

[Newtosavage]

It's not the action, it's the QC.

Agreed. I was just pointing out how similar the actions are.

 

[ChrisAU]

And then there's this comment that I simply disagree with and provided examples why: "There is no advantage to a bolt that isn’t locked closed when on safe..." If you want one less feature on your rifle for no particular reason, then it's on you to explain why a 2 position safety that doesn't allow you to lock the bolt up is an advantage.

Read that one slowly - he's agreeing with you.

 

[DangerRanger]

I can’t believe weatherby dropped a savage clone in 2023

 

[gerry35]

I can’t believe weatherby dropped a savage clone in 2023

That's good because they didn't.

 

[DangerRanger]

Then why are we talking about savages?

 

[gerry35]

Then why are we talking about savages?

Not sure to be honest lol.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Then why are we talking about savages?

Because Newtosavage is a stern believer.

 

[DangerRanger]

Well hopefully someone will release a savage clone soon then

 

[Nomosendero]

Well hopefully someone will release a savage clone soon then

But a Savage clone would be yet another imitation ! Those who love the Savage have the Savage.